Do We ALL Agree that Man is Both Depraived And Spiritual Inable To Come To God?

...or we adjust our theology to match what the Bible says and not a confession

is Acts 17:26-27 speaking of only the "elect"? Is there even the slightest chance they will "perhaps" (v.27) not reach out for Him?

 

Salvation is of the Lord. All of it. However faith is not a work. When Jesus said on the cross "It is finished," he meant his work, the sacrificial atoning for sins was done. What remained was his burial and resurrection. Salvation is a gift to be received. It must be received by faith; not God's faith, but one's own faith. To think that I could receive salvation with God's faith is absurd! I must receive his gift thankfully with my faith that I put in him. Again faith is not a work.

Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. (John 6:28-29)

The Jews wanted to know what work they could do in order to work their way to heaven. Jesus makes a play on words. There is no way one can work their way to heaven. Salvation is not by works. Thus Jesus says: This is the work of God that ye may believe on him whom he hath sent.
--Salvation is not of works. Jesus calls faith a work because it isn't. He is making a play on words. There is nothing that you can do but believe. Believing (faith) is not a work. This is the teaching of Christ.
Faith does not come from God. It is not a gift of God. It comes from hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17)

Your opinion. Unsubstantiated by the Bible, as it has been throughout five threads now. (not just you, but by the many others who have posted). They all make the same statement but give it no Scriptural support. Why should I believe you if you can't support it with Scripture?

God? God's Word? God the Holy Spirit? Perhaps.
But did God give her faith to believe? No.
God never gives the unregenerate spiritual gifts.
God never gives the unregenerate the fruit of the Spirit.
Lydia had to put her faith in the message of the Bible--the gospel. In the message that Paul gave her, she accepted by faith.

No, faith comes when one is convinced of the truth of the message.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.
Is there a problem with Scripture or a problem with Calvin?

Apparently Calvinists do disagree.
First you have taken Scripture out of context.
1Cor.2:14 is speaking of the doctrine of illumination. Take the entire passage 2:11-15 and put it in its context. The Corinthians were able to understand the Scriptures because of the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. The unsaved could not because they did not have that advantage. God illumines the mind of the believer and gives him understanding of the Scripture. That is what Paul was teaching in that passage. Proof-texting is a bad way to make your point. The verse says nothing about God giving faith.
Rom.10:21 speaks of God's relationship with Israel. It says nothing about God giving faith.

If your view on the new birth were correct then the Spirit of God would descend on the occasional pygmy in Africa, Maori in New Zealand, Eskimo in NWT, all of whom have never heard the Gospel and are ignorant of Christianity, and by some supernatural, cosmic intervention would be regenerated by God's grace because no faith, absolutely nothing is needed on their part. This is ridiculous. They just need to be born. They are completely passive. They are elected. They will be born again whether or not they ever hear the gospel and have the chance to put their faith in it. That is an absurd theology.

One is born again because he has the opportunity to put his faith in the gospel, and having done thus God makes him one of his own children, and he enters into his family.
Read again John 1:12.

The Bible never says faith is a gift of God--never.
It says salvation is a gift from God.
Eternal life the gift of God. But not faith. God does not give spiritual gifts to the unregenerate. You make a statement but cannot back it up with Scripture.

 

Very sound and Biblical apologetic Steve. Amen to all you've said, you've spoken truth here with great points. :thumbsup:

It is all God, He does ALL the saving.

- Grace and Peace to you

 

Who is we ....also note the confessions have scriptural proof texts below to support them plus probably the best theologians of the day, plus ..... I like confessions:smilewinkgrin:

 

Preach...... do any of these guys debating us appear to be agents of the devil.... (ya neva know) Jersey speak.:smilewinkgrin:

 

Why did you ignore the rest of my post? How does your confession square with the Scripture I posted? How is ther room for a "perhaps" in the irresistable grace department?

 

Administrative warning

We've reached the ten page mark. Wrap it up.

 

DHK,
It came from here...

No red herring ,just responding to this idea...

WEBDOG

Let me say this again....

The ALL in Adam.....are all men born everywhere, from all time

The All IN CHRIST...are all persons who are adopted by God ,and born from above....
Remember I asked you to draw a big circle= all in adam
draw another circle inside the first one=all IN Christ

Only those who are in both circles go to heaven=those in Christ
Those who remain in the outer circle...remain dead in Adam

This verse uses the word ALL......but you wrongly conclude that all that are in Adam...have to all be in Christ.

Willis......I posted this for WEBDOG the other day...now for you and dhk.
you said;

Willis...
here it is for you.....

 

1) Depraved? Yes.

2) Spiritually unable to come to God?

Since Christ said it was not His desire that any should perish, but that all should come to repentantance, and given that God gives potentially saving "Light" to every human being who comes into the world, the clear answer to #2 is...

No. We should of course NOT agree with that.

AiC

 

Iconoclast,

Do you agree or disagree that man (mankind) was created (designed) to have fellowship with the creator (God)?

 

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (Romans 5:12)

For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) (Romans 5:17)

Death is separation; separation from God when spoken of spiritually.
Spiritual death--death by sin.
By one man's offence death (separation from God) reigned by or because of one man.
The gift of righteousness (not the gift of faith) shall reign by or because of one--Jesus Christ. But you must receive the gift. Every gift is received by faith.

 

Great observation. Great post.

 

quantum,
Adam and Eve did have this fellowship with God before the fall.....

dying thou shalt surely die....

This fellowship is now only available in Christ...not outside of Him..

So unless a man is restored as an true image bearer...he is totally unable to have this fellowship..

these persons seek a god of their own imagination,and creation and the True and living God hates this false worship...they seek a god that does what they want him to do......that is why corinthians speaks of it as idolatry.

psalm 14 points out that no one seeks the true God.... benjamin.....I did not see this quoted on your list.

 

DHK...i agree with this...iwas quoting Willis who offered a challenge to me .