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Featured Do you agree with Spurgeon?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Revmitchell, Jul 9, 2014.

  1. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    The system of truth is not one straight line but two. No man will ever get a right view of the gospel until he knows how to look at the two lines at once…Now, if I were to declare that man was so free to act, that there is no precedence of God over his actions, I should be driven very near to atheism; and if, on the other hand, I declare that God so overrules all things, as that man is not free to be responsible, I am driven at once to Antinomianism or fatalism. That God predestinates, and that man is responsible, are two things that few can see. ~ Charles Hadden Spurgeon


    Iain Murray, The Forgotten Spurgeon (London: Banner of Truth, 1973) 9.
     
  2. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    That's from his sermon Sovereign Grace and Man's Responsibility, delivered at the Music Hall of Surrey Palace on August 1, 1858. It's an excellent sermon that I've used before to prove Spurgeon was the not the ultra-Calvinist many of today's modern Calvinists like to claim. This segment was part of his introduction, and he went on to say:
    Spurgeon was smart enough to see that Calvinism and Reformed theology are both too absolute to be absolutely correct.
     
  3. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    The sovereignty of God and the responsibility of man. Both are biblically true. Now what's the problem? There is nothing wrong with that Spurgeon clip.
     
  4. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Please furnish quotes from any Calvinist since the 19th century who called Spurgeon an ultra-Calvinist. No Calvinist has made that claim. And that means no Calvinist on the BB has either.

    Your "claim" is devoid of merit.

     
  5. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    I don't know what you mean by the phrase "too absolute." Please elaborate. Biblically true?
     
    #5 Rippon, Jul 9, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 9, 2014
  6. convicted1

    convicted1 Active Member

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    CHS was spot on....no Calvinist would deny him being correct. The problems stem from those who think they know what Calvinism is, when in fact, they're not within 1,000,000 miles of it.

    That was me prior to jumping ship...I just knew I knew it, but once my eyes were opened to it's beauty, I saw how beautiful it truly is....
     
  7. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    The "human responsibility" so often harped on by those who oppose the doctrine of grace to show it is erroneous does not include the unregenerate. Human responsibility is on the part of those quickened and who come under the gospel call. To them also belong the consequences of shirking or ignoring the tenets of the gospel.
     
  8. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    I agree with Spurgeon in the above quote just as I do from these statements that are taken from the same sermon:

     
  9. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    Cherry picking and taking out of its context. How decidedly Arrrr...er, never mind.
     
  10. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    :thumbsup::applause::thumbsup:
     
  11. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Reformed,
    Nice.....
     
  12. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    I do not mind when some are concerned to maintain the truth that all men are responsible before God. It is vital and needs to be urged upon all men everywhere:thumbsup:
     
  13. BobRyan

    BobRyan Active Member

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    And of course I like his "Baptist Confession of Faith" revision.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  14. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    You do? That's surprising.
     
  15. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    I concur. Perhaps that is what the esteemed Rev. was trying to do; to call attention to the fact that God's sovereignty does not eliminate human responsibility; something that no Calvinist will deny.
     
  16. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Yes.

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1972848#post1972848

    "A difficulty held in common within all theologies is where to draw the line, or make a clear distinction, between God's sovereignty and man’s responsibility. At what point does the realm of the eternal where man is totally passive end, and where does the realm of the temporal where man is active and held accountable begin?

    The Primitives in general have given it their best shot to do this and rightly divide by making the distinction between eternal salvation (born from above/regeneration) and gospel salvation (saved, conversion, profession of Christ as LORD). A short easy read on this is Elder Mike Gowens' essay:

    Born Again: The Doctrine of Effectual Calling

    There also is a distinction to be made between the eternal and the temporal aspects of the kingdom....."
     
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Except the NT scriptures indicate that being reborn is being saved, as until the sinner receives jesus as their messiah thru faith, remains lost and dead in their sins!
     
  18. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    did you even read what was written in that link ?
    I guess not.
     
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I did, but there is NO NT support for the concept that one can be regenerated by God, and also has not yet received jesus thru faith!

    the regeneration happens at same time a sinner gets saved!
     
  20. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    That view puts you at odds with the reformed/calvinist doctrine. What are you a closte Arminian? :laugh:
     
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