Do you raise YOUR Children this way?

Moderators,
If this thread does not convince you that Calvin-free will debates produce nothing but hate, I do not know what would. I really think they all, whatever the title of the thread that leads to this subject, needs to be put off in a distant corner.

Having raised children the best way I knew how, I find the analogy between children and this subject ridiculous.

Everyone is right. We are each certain we have the focus of Biblical truth. Therefore, "I will pray for you", no "I will pray for you." It sounds like a bunch of six year old kids. Its my Bible, no its mine. Nonsense.

We create all these man made divisions, and keep subdividing until only our denomination is saved, then only our local church, maybe only me is saved. Praise the Lord this thread was not the original members of the church in Acts. No doubt we would have 1 million denominations today instead of over 1000.

 

Well, why not explain if the "elect" is chosen before the foundation of the world, can anyone else be saved besides the ones chosen before the foundation of the world?

If they have to go through certain steps, they can't help themselves if they were chosen as the "elect" before the foundation of the world. Maybe some of you can write and say if you can refuse the Grace when it comes? When you get this faith, according to you God put it in you, when you get this repentance, God changed your heart so it couldn't do anything else but repent.
Does anyone deny this.

 

I don't think Brother Bob is saying that people on hear are doing that. But there are some people on hear that believe if a person can commit adultery and not repent and go to heaven even thou they done this deed. Let me explain. Like if a person is commiting adultery and they get in there car and after and get in a wreak and die that they will go to heaven. But they confese that they are save and are doing these things. I thank what he is trieing to say is there are alot on hear that think they can do them things and go to heaven and say they are saved. I have seen it for myself on hear. I will tell you and everyone else if you do them things you are still under the law and ye shall be judge by the law. What sayeth the law Gal 5-19-21 I will give you the last part of verse 21 that they which DO SUCH THINGS SHALL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD. So how can someone disagree with this if it clearly says they cannot inherit the kingdom of God. I do not believe that GOD will MAKE you serve him. I do believe in a small still voice that talks to sinner men and weman. I do believe that it is his love and kindness that draws us. That is the reason he said chose this day whom you will serve. Harden not your heart. I think he can make all of us serve him. But I don't think that he will. He wants us to believe on whom he sent to. You believe by the heart. If you think that God makes you serve him then there is something wrong there. You as a Christain should have a desire to serve the Lord.

 

Please tell me if I have it wrong highlight in the red.

Can the elect refuse these things highlighted in red when they come?

 

It would take someone more eloquent than I to explain it properly. I would just say that if we believe in Christ, it is because we are the elect of God, though we didn't know it before we believed, neither did the Christian(s) who witnessed/preached to us.

Writing to the Christians at Ephesus, Paul said in Ephesians 1.3-9:

3 ¶ Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He has made us accepted in the Beloved.
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace
8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence,
9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself.​

 

Many thanks for your gracious and undeserved words.

 

You can credit God or the Holy Spirit, but they're very deserved. I wish I had your patience and gentleness.

 

(I hope I have re-highlighted correctly - when I pressed "Quote", the result did not include your quote of me, or your highlights)

My first response would be, "Why ever should they want to refuse them?"

In reply to your "red words":

God put the faith in you? God gave me faith, yes.

No one said you wouldn't know. I must have misunderstood your earlier post, where you wrote: "WoW! you are saved!!!!, in
an instant with no knowledge it was taking place."

Do you believe, being you are the elect, God makes sure you do hear the word? Yes, but only in hindsight. As a Christian, I can say,"God made sure that I heard His Word, for He causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose." As an unsaved person, before my conversion, I had no way of knowing whether I was "elect of God" or not, and had no interest in knowing, either.

Now these I hope all Cals do believe, but I think you are saying, God will change your heart so you will repent? Without God changing my heart, I would have seen no need to repent, and certainly had no ability to do so. I was spiritually dead.

 

Well, isn't that the way government and the libs want citizens to raise our children ?
No spanking, no "go to bed without dinner"?
No "I'll determine if this boy is right for you, or if this girl is good for you" ?
No "don't you ever raise your voice at me again, young man (or woman)" ?

Heck, even tv commercials about cellphones have children talking back to their parents disrespectfully over the right to have a cellphone of their choice !

All "I trust you, darling, to do the right thing in Cancun, or Florida, during your spring break".

Sorry, couldn't resist it.
Apologies for sounding impertinent.

 

In the infant salvation thread it was noted by Spurgeon that "elect"infants cannot have faith...and are saved regardless.

 

You assumed it, agreed that it was your opinion, but didn't prove it.

I think its irresponsible to quote only a section and try to use it to your own purpose.

That is the full introduction to the sermon. The sermon can be read in its entirety here http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0411.htm

To make the claim you are webbdog, you have to ignore everythign else Spurgeon taught in the sermon.

And webbdog, I am curious, do you believe as some asserted on that thread that faith is from man, and not a gift of God? Then, as you rightly say, we must have true saving faith in Christ to be saved, how does an infant child exercise their own inherent faith in Jesus? (if indeed that is your scheme, but I didn't take you for a calvinist).

 

Don't you just love the way non calvinists never get calvinism right, and don't want to either, they rather make up stuff. Must make them feel superior.

 

If I understand Calvinism; There are steps to Salvation. If that is so, is the first step:
1. Being chose by God from the foundation of the world as "elect"?

Yes or No?

The next step would be regeneration, which is "born again", is that right? When God changes your heart?

Yes or No

Any Calvinist can answer these questions if they want.

 

Feel free to answer the questions Donna, then maybe we will know.

I never saw the first person object to this thread which is to create a heated discussion between C/A, until Saturneptune stated these type threads don't do anyone any good. The last few days I have sat silently by while thread after thread was started to "down" so called free willers. There comes a time you have to defend yourself.

Spurgeon also stated if he could only see the "E".

 

I am sure there has to be people who disagree with Calvinism, are true Christians, and do not misrepresent Calivinistic theology. I haven't seen one yet though, but I haven't read everybody...

 

[QUOTE]I am sure there has to be people who disagree with Calvinism, are true Christians, and do not misrepresent Calivinistic theology. I haven't seen one yet though, but I haven't read everybody[/QUOTE]

A statement like this is exactly why you are receiving the posts you are now. You Sir, have just said that JoJ, Web, Creech, Convicted1, Myself and many more are not Christians. These I know you have read. I could go and get all the rest, but what good would it do, you do not think they are Christians, according to your statement above. Which is against the BB rules. I have never stated that any of you are not Christians and will not do so. You are the one who started the song against so called free willers, knowing it would draw "heat" as you so well like to use.
You all should be ashamed of yourselves for your threads are set up to call so call free willers non Christians, lost and going to hell. Well Sir, I been at this a long time and my Lord and Saviour is Jesus Christ, whether you believe it or not. Shame on you.

 

You have misunderstood me brother Bob, and as a result, this is a false accuastion, which I don't think you wish to do. A simple "I am sorry, I misunderstood you" will suffice to clear me of this calumny.

 

What part is misunderstood, you tell me.

 

Certainly. And re-reading my sentence I can see how you came to your conclusion. It was poorly worded.

What I meant is that there are true Christians, who disagree with some or all the 5-points of Calvinism, who have accurately represented Calvinist theology. I have not read any of their arguments/books/treatise, but I am sure there are some.

So, I am not saying all who disagree with Calvinism are unsaved. I have never believed such a thing. I hope that clears it up.