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Featured Doctrine of Unconditional Election 2

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Brightfame52, Nov 13, 2021.

  1. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    What is Gods purpose according to election?

    Rom 9:11

    11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

    What is Gods purpose according to election? The purpose of God according to election is that salvation be accomplished by the work of his Son, that his Son might be the Firstborn among many brethren, all the honor and glory of the Firstborn belongs to Christ

    Rom 8:28-29

    28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

    29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
     
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  2. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Should we mention the doctrine of election to the unbeliever?

    Some have told us that this great Biblical truth is an “in-house debate” and should not be brought up to the unbeliever. We should them at the place of their responsibility and never mention their inability we are told.

    First, let me say with no uncertainty, the doctrine of election is not a “debate”. It is a biblical truth that is uncatagorically essential to the marvelous gospel of God’s free and sovereign grace. To deny election is to dethrone God. The gospel of “man’s free will” is another gospel. Read Galatians 1:6-10 to see what God says about that. The doctrine of election is not a “deep truth” that requires the exercised intellect of a trained theologian to comprehend. It is a simple truth that all of God’s children rejoice to believe.

    Second, the scriptures give plenty of examples of this great truth not being “in-house”. Let me briefly mention just two. The first is none less than our Lord’s own evangelistic ministry. In Matthew 15, and Luke 7, we have recorded Jesus encounter with the Syrophenician woman. After pleading with the Lord for mercy on her demon possessed daughter, Jesus told her that He came for the lost sheep of Israel (the elect), and that He could not take the bread from the children and give it to the “dogs”. The Bible says, “she worshipped Him”. The Lord declared the doctrine of God’s sovereign election to bring this woman to understand her only hope was to bow in humble submission to the One who alone could save her. The second example is the conversion of the apostle Paul in Acts 9. God sends a disciple by the name of Ananias to confirm the gospel to this last and greatest (or least as he saw it ) apostle with the message of election; “he is a chosen vessel of mine” v.15.

    The modem evangelistic appeal, devoid of God’s sovereign election, in essence, invites the unbeliever to “make a decision” without confronting them with the Sovereignty of God. It presents them with an “invitation”, an r.s.v.p… let them decide if and when they are ready. It feeds the pride of man. The true gospel message is one of sovereign grace that humbles the sinner to beg for a crumb of bread from the Master’s table. God gives grace to the humble. .’.He resists the proud. By Greg Elemquist
     
  3. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    The purpose of election is not a hidden secret. It has been demonstrated from the beginning of the creation and was illustrated in the first birth recorded in human history. That birth was the birth of twin boys, Cain and Abel. Cain represented in all points the power of sin over the flesh. He was born after the flesh, but we will learn later that a man must be born again. Therefore, Abel represents the new man, the new birth, the second birth. Jesus said to a ruler of Israel, whom he came in the flesh to save collectively as one man. How? by keeping the law of God and then sacrificing himself so they can experience this new birth. Was Jesus the second son of God. Yes, metaphorically speaking he was. Who was the firstborn? Israel, collectively speaking, was the firstborn son of God. I am not guessing about that. We are told it plainly. Here is proof.

    Ex 4:19 And the LORD said unto Moses in Midian, Go, return into Egypt: for all the men are dead which sought thy life.
    20 And Moses took his wife and his sons, and set them upon an ass, and he returned to the land of Egypt: and Moses took the rod of God in his hand.
    21 And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.
    22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel [is] my son, [even] my firstborn:

    This son must be be born again, which means that Israel cannot go into the kingdom until every Israelite living is born again by trusting in the shed blood of Jesus Christ. In this sense, John 3 is dealing with a national salvation and a new birth for his nation. This is the reason a ruler of Israel, a Pharisee is under consideration in John 3. Each Israelite must come to Christ. What happened at the first coming of Jesus Christ was that Israel through her national rulers rejected Jesus Christ as their promised Messiah ans as the son of God. Only a remnant of Israel believed and were born again. That is the reason the gentiles were include in the mystery kingdom of Jesus Christ. The king is away and awaiting his kingdom from the Father, after all unbelievers are destroyed from Israel, as well as the world.

    Check it out here as he speaks to Israel after he has returned to heaven and sat down on his Father's throne.

    .Ac 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    I underlined the operative phrase in this command.

    18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
    19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
    20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
    21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
    22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
    23 And it shall come to pass, [that] every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
    24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
    25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
    26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

    Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
    27 For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

    Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

    There will be few of Israel left after the day of the LORD judgement, which is still in the future, but everyone who is left will have been born again and collectively Israel will be born again.

    The trial and death of Jesus Christ on cross is an illustrated type of the day of the Lord judgements upon Israel. His resurrection and quickening by the Spirit of God is a representation and type of the resurrected and quickened nation of Israel, yet future.

    Both were raised from the dead very early on the third day. We are in the beginning historically of the third day of Israel's burial in the nations in AD 70.

    There is much to this story that will always be blocked by Calvinism.
     
  4. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    JD, no traditional Christian would ever hold your view, including the majority of free-will Arminians.
     
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  5. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    I guess you would need to define what you mean by "traditional" Christian.

    The precision of the words of the scriptures are without parallel in any other tome in human history. One must. believe the words and he must not redefine them and add the new definition to them like those do whom you are probably calling traditional Christians. Words like sovereign grace, irresistible grace, sovereignty of God, unconditional election, determinism, total depravity, limited atonement, perseverance of the saints and other made up doctrines, that even the concept of the doctrines cannot be found in the scriptures without doing serious damage to the integrity of the words, let alone being guilty of adding to the words of God.
     
  6. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    I think we should tell everyone that Christ paid for all the sins of all who believe in Him. And He tells us all who believe have eternal life they can never lose. If you believe, turn from your sins and be baptized.
     
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  7. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Thats still the Elect. No one else will or can believe in Him ! Dont be reluctant to tell people Christ died for Gods elect and that they as a result of that shall believe.
     
  8. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    You miss the point that Jesus uses faith found in people to identify the elect. What's an "elect" to the casual listener?
     
  9. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Simply say: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved."
    This is an accurate statement for both the Calvinist and Arminian.
    Unless one believes, one cannot be saved. Jesus atonement is only effective for the believer, not for the unbeliever.
     
  10. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    This is true, but shouldn't we mention His death for sin? His burial, and resurrection on the third day? Proving his sinlessness? And the everywhere missing "Gospel of the Kingdom"? They preach the Pharisee's Kingdom today if they even mention a kingdom.
     
  11. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    We preach the gospel.
    1 Corinthians 15:3-8 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me.
    Romans 5:1-11 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us. For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.
     
  12. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Peter preached the kingdom of God, as did Jesus and Paul. Nobody does this today unless it's the Pharisee's idea of the kingdom. But Peter included Christ's death, burial, and resurrection in the gospel of the kingdom as it stood at that time. So I try to keep step with him when writing or witnessing. That would be in Acts 2.
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The Kingdom of Jesus is here, but not yet here in full, as that awaits the King second coming!
     
  14. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    What is the meaning of election?

    The Greek word for election is ekloge (ek-log-ay') it means to pick out, choose, chosen, elect. It is to choose some people out of many people. Who does the choosing? God does the choosing. Do not be surprised majority of the churches that are Arminian believe this too. On what basis does God choose some out of many? This is where the rubber meets the road. The most crucial question is, on what bases does God elects some and leave others?



    The meaning of unconditional election.

    Arminians reply, God looks into the future and sees who will accept him, receive him, and God elects them on the basis of man’s will. The Scriptures make it very clear that Election to salvation is in no way conditioned by or dependent upon man. Unconditional means that there are no conditions that humans must meet, including faith. Faith is a gift of God (Rom. 12:3; Eph. 2:8). If human-generated faith plays a part in salvation, salvation is not entirely by grace. Now think about it, if election is of man’s will, then God is bound to man’s will. Then where is the sovereignty of God? Where is the mercy of God? Where is the grace of God? All these have no place as God is limited and he has no choice but he has to make the choice as per man’s decision. This kind of teaching is very heretical and slap on God’s sovereignty.


    On the other hand, the Bible says just the opposite. God predestines and choose some according to his will and as per his own pleasure.

    Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

    5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

    6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

    7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

    8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

    9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

    10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

    11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

    "It is absurd to think that anything in us could have the least influence upon our election. Some say that God did foresee that such persons would believe, and therefore did choose them; so, they would make the business of salvation to depend upon something in us. Whereas God does not choose us FOR faith, but TO faith. "He hath chosen us, that we should be holy," (Ephesians 1:4), not because we would be holy, but that we might be holy." Thomas Watson

    "Moreover, as God respects no persons, so He respects no conditions upon which He gives salvation to us." Thomas Goodwin

    "The orthodox maintain that the good pleasure alone (of God) has place and think that no other cause can either be given or rightly sought [for election]." Francis Turretin

    "The good pleasure of God is an act of the divine will freely and effectively determining all things." William Ames

    If election is of foreseen faith, then God would not have elected man, but rather man would have elected God. Jesus said, there is no one good, but one, that is God.

    "Nothing in my hands I bring,
    Simply to thy cross I cling,"



    Election is a glorious doctrine, as the sinner realize although he deserves hell, it was God who chose him. Election is a work performed by the God of glory. It lifts sinners from the darkness, destruction, doom, and death of sin to become God’s children. It brings glory to God, and nothing to man. It will praise of his glorious grace, which we do not deserve. Election is glorious. We were the chief of sinners, the king of sinners, hypocrites and totally deceived ourselves.

    1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

    10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

    But God chose me!

    'Twas not that I did choose Thee
    For Lord That could not be;
    This heart would still refuse Thee,
    Hadst Thou not chosen me."

    Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you.

    1Co 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

    26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

    27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

    28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

    29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

    Election brings true humility.

    Spurgeon said, “I know nothing, nothing again, that is more humbling for us than this doctrine of election. I have sometimes fallen prostrate before it, when endeavoring to understand it. I have stretched my wings, and, eagle-like, I have soared towards the sun. Steady has been my eye, and true my wing, for a season; but, when I came near it, and the one thought possessed me,—"God hath from the beginning chosen you unto salvation," I was lost in its lustre, I was staggered with the mighty thought; and from the dizzy elevation down came my soul, prostrate and broken, saying, "Lord, I am nothing, I am less than nothing. Why me? Why me?"


    Friends, if you want to be humbled, study election, for it will make you humble under the influence of God's Spirit. He who is proud of his election is not elect; and he who is humbled under a sense of it may believe that he is. He has every reason to believe that he is, for it is one of the most blessed effects of election that it helps us to humble ourselves before God.”

    sounddoctrine
     
  15. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    That sounds like conditionalism !
     
  16. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    No, they were born again and redeemed from eternity at calvary. How can God justly lift his wrath from unbelievers without first paying for their sins?
     
  17. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    You sound confused friend.
     
  18. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    You need more study. You'll find I'm right. God cannot forgive unless a person is justified. This is why Jesus looked for faith in those seeking healing. As did Paul. These were in fact born again Jews as Abraham was also faithful.
     
  19. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    I think this purpose is revealed in John 6:39. 'This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing but raise it up at the last day.'
    What we learn from this verse taken with a few others is that God the Father has a people whom He has chosen from the beginning of time (Ephesians 1:4-5). He has given these people to the Son who has redeemed every one of them through His death upon the cross (Revelation 5:9 etc.). He will not lose even one of them so God's grace must be irresistible.
    But the very next verse tells us something else of God's purpose. 'And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.' That is why Christ says through Isaiah, 'Look to Me and be saved, all you ends of the earth! For I am God and there is no other.'

    We have to hold these two great truths in parallel with each other. One is not more true than the other. But we also read that, 'It pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe (1 Corinthians 1:21; c.f. also Romans 10:14-15). God will have His elect saved through faith, through the medium of preaching.

    The English reformer John Rogers, who deserves to be heard if only because he was the first of the martyrs under Queen Mary, said, "A man should go first to the school of repentance and faith before he goes to the university of election." And so he should. Preachers should not ask a man to look into his own heart; he'll find no help there! They should bid him look to Christ, to Christ crucified, to Christ made sin for us, to Christ risen and reigning in heaven, and bid him repent and trust in him for salvation. And if he will come, be he never so wicked a wretch, Christ will by no means cast him out.

    But when he comes, it will be because God set His love upon him in eternity and has, in time, drawn him with lovingkindness (Jeremiah 31:3).
     
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    So when does God see the lost sinner now justified?
     
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