No, just that before you bash it, please learn what we realy mean by the terms!
doctrines of grace ?
Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by MB, Jan 3, 2017.
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Think of it this way – I tell Jim that we can make water boil without adding heat. Jim does not believe me. I use a vacuum pump and lower the pressure in a jar of water in front of Jim. As the pressure decreases Jim sees the water boiling without adding heat. Did I violate Jim’s will in order to “make” him believe? No. I simply revealed to Jim a law of physics.
I believe that the gospel is the power of God to salvation. I do not believe that this means they are words to believe in order to be saved, but that literally the gospel is the power of God to salvation. When God reveals the Truth of the gospel to a man, man believes. -
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Here;
And if they have yet to receive revelation, they can't be condemned for rejecting it
So a sinner on judgement day charged with rejecting revelation can in his defense claim he did not receive none. He has an 'excuse'. Am I making sense, or am I misrepresenting your statement? -
I do not mean that God reveals the Truth of the gospel to every man. But in John 3 Jesus tells us that this gospel has come to people already condemned for the purpose of saving those who believe. There is no hint of obligation on the part of God. Nor is it necessary for the lost to reject the gospel message in order to be condemned....as Jesus said, they are condemned already. -
Permit me to probe further. There is either rejection or acceptance of general revelation. Rejecting it damns.
What about accepting it? Is the Totally Depraved soul capable of accepting it? And if he does,would it save, or is it sufficient to deliver him from condemnation, or must it be complemented by particular revelation (Gospel)?
I ask because very few pre-calvary knew about the Gospel,and post-calvary, many, in fact majority still perish minus particular revelation of the gospel meaning all they possess is the general revelation.
Sorry if I'm digressing, please let me know.
Before the Gospel, man is already condemned, general revelation notwithstanding.
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All of us are objects of wrath,enemies of God then suddenly (or gradually) some want nothing but God while the rest remain enemies. What happened?
They did not hear and believe words...they received power of God. So the rest didn't. Their hitherto rebellious will now turn to God. Their wills are subdued,overridden, all options but one are removed, they can't but follow Christ -
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All who are lost have chosen to reject the offer of God freely... -
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Both Spiritual and natural truth. I do believe humbling oneself to Truth is exactly why Christ says "believe" as the response to the Gospel. You must surrender your will to the Truth being spoken and agree with it. There is no room for pride when someone believes that we are sinners in desperate need of a Savior, and we can do nothing to save ourselves. -
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Total Depravity means as bad as could be. That's why they use the word "TOTAL"?
Maybe you just believe in Partial Depravity?
If God "let go" we would all be dead in seconds. I could put some vids of James White telling us this.
We can hear from others;
"Our rebellion against God is total." -Piper
"In his total rebellion everything man does is sin."-Piper
"Man's inability to submit to God and do good is total."- piper
"We declare on scriptural authority that the human will is so desperately set on mischief, so depraved, so inclined to everything that is evil, and so disinclined to everything that is good, that without the powerful, supernatural, irresistible influence of the Holy Spirit, no human will will ever be constrained toward Christ.” -- Spurgeon
"The Bible teaches the total depravity of the human race. Total depravity means radical corruption. We must be careful to note the difference between total depravity and "utter" depravity. To be utterly depraved is to be as wicked as one could possibly be. Hitler was extremely depraved, but he could have been worse than he was. I am sinner. Yet I could sin more often and more severely than I actually do. I am not utterly depraved, but I am totally depraved. For total depravity means that I and everyone else are
depraved or corrupt in the totality of our being. There is no part of us that is left untouched by sin. Our minds, our wills, and our bodies are affected by evil. We speak sinful words, do sinful deeds, have impure thoughts. Our very bodies suffer from the ravages of sin." -Sproul
You might be trying to say what Sproul is saying.
But really post God's current grace.
Find someone totally separated from God and its guaranteed "utterly" evil let alone totally.
And then there is preconceived ideas what evil course vs "intelligent" evil course.
For example the Devil isn't suicidal and apathetic. He still "cares" to have a beef with God.
Even a sadist is well too "entertained" by existence.
A lot of evil if not all is just immaturity.
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