Featured Does ALL mean ALL or not ALL

Then you tell me, how do you know for a fact you are one of the elect? How do you know for a fact you are regenerated?

Please explain how you know these things.

 

WRONG AGAIN:
8 The use of the aor. in both Romans passages, in their given context, point to an event, i.e.,

mankind did not simply inherit a sinful nature or tendency from Adam—“all have sinned,” thus referring to personal experience and activity,

but “all sinned” in an event, a point in time (Rom. 3:23, pa,ntej ga.r h[marton kai. u`sterou/ntai th/j do,xhj tou/ qeou/.


“For all sinned and are subsequently constantly coming short…” Rom. 5:12, …diV e`no.j avnqrw,pou h` a`marti,a eivj to.n ko,smon…evfV w-| pa,ntej h[marton. “by one man sin entered into the world…for all sinned.”). Every human being is a sinner by imputation, nature and personal activity.

 

We are commanded to make our calling and election sure.A scriptural basis for assurance is found here...In God's promise...not my personal anecdotes-

I resisted God all the way...I am the last person who would ever believe the bible.I wanted nothing to do with it,and started to read the bible to oppose it....i was wrong, it is right and God saved me despite myself.


1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

One of the best things I have ever read on this is in the Baptist cathechism with Commentary...by WR.Downing...page 213

 

I do not see this in my Bible. I have looked in other versions and do not see all this verbiage. What you have written here is not in any version of scripture I am aware of.

Pray tell, what version of scripture are you quoting here?

 

Oh, I see, you are WORKING yourself to heaven. If you DO all of these things, then you will make your election sure. Got it.

What I don't understand though is this... How can YOU make your election sure? I thought only God can elect you. If God elects you, why do you need to make it sure? And if God did not elect you, how can you possibly make it sure?

So, I guess if a person does all these things you have posted here, then they will be saved for certain??

Sure sounds like works salvation to me.

Truth is, you have no idea if you are elect, because you believe Jesus only died for some men. As you and others say many times, you have no idea who the elect are. That would include yourself as well.

You can feign a false security all you want, I know better. You don't have a clue if you are elect or not. You could be completely self deceived.

But I am not telling you something you don't already know in your heart. :thumbsup:

 

look in an interlinear.....


Romans 3:23

23 For all have sinned , and come short of the glory of God;
pavnte? {A-NPM} ga;r {CONJ} h&marton {V-2AAI-3P} kai; {CONJ} uJsterou'ntai {V-PPI-3P} th'? {T-GSF} dovxh? tou' {T-GSM} qeou', {N-GSM}
<< Romans 3:22Romans 3:23Romans 3:24 >>

 

Again, not one version says all men sinned in Adam at one point in time as you say Romans 3:23 says. A person would have to believe that hundreds of Greek scholars ALL got it wrong. You would think that they would clearly express this if that is what this verse is truly saying, yet not one does.

And you want me to believe you? :wavey:

 

I have not found one who teaches otherwise:
Robertson's NT Word Studies
3:23 {Sinned} (h�rmarton). Constative second aorist active indicative of hamartanw as in #5:12. this tense gathers up the whole race into one statement (a timeless aorist). {And fall short} (kai husterountai). Present middle indicative of husterew, to be husteros (comparative) too late, continued action, still fall short. It is followed by the ablative case as here, the case of separation.

[

For all have sinned - This was the point which he had fully established in the discussion in these chapters.

Have come short - Greek, "Are deficient in regard to;" are lacking, etc. Here it means, that they had failed to obtain, or were destitute of.

The glory of God - The praise or approbation of God. They had sought to be justified, or approved, by God; but all had failed. Their works of the Law had not secured his approbation; and they were therefore under condemnation. The word "glory" (δόξα doxa) is often used in the sense of praise, or approbation, John 5:41, John 5:44; John 7:18; John 8:50, John 8:54; John 12:43.
Clarke's Commentary on the Bible

For all have sinned : - And consequently are equally helpless and guilty; and, as God is no respecter of persons, all human creatures being equally his offspring, and there being no reason why one should be preferred before another, therefore his endless mercy has embraced All.

And come short of the glory of God - και υστερουνται της δοξης του θεου These words have been variously translated. Failed of attaining the glory of God: Have not been able to bring glory to God: Stand in need of the glory, that is, the mercy of God. The simple meaning seems to be this: that all have sinned, and none can enjoy God's glory but they that are holy; consequently both Jews and Gentiles have failed in their endeavors to attain it, as, by the works of any law, no human being can be justified.
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

For all have sinned,.... This is the general character of all mankind; all have sinned in Adam, are guilty by his sin, polluted with it, and condemned for it; all are sinners in themselves, and by their own actual transgressions; this is the case of the whole world, and of all the men in it; not only of the Gentiles, but of the Jews, and the more righteous among them: hence there is no difference in the state and condition of men by nature; nor is there any reason from and in themselves, why God saves one and not another; nor any room to despair of the grace and righteousness of Christ, on account of persons being, in their own view, the worst of sinners:

and hence it is, that they are all

come short of the glory of God; either of glorifying of God; man was made for this purpose, and was capable of it, though now through sin incapable; and it is only by the grace of God that he is enabled to do it: or of glorying: before him; sin has made him infamous, and is his shame; by it he has forfeited all external favours, and has nothing of his own to glory in; his moral righteousness is no foundation for boasting, especially before God: or of having glory from God; the most pure and perfect creature does not of itself deserve any glory and praise from God; good men, in a way of grace, will have praise of God; but sinners can never expect any on their own account: or of the glorious grace of God, as sanctifying and pardoning grace, and particularly the grace of a justifying righteousness; man has no righteousness, nor can he work out one; nor will his own avail, he wants a better than that: or of eternal glory; which may be called the glory of God, because it is of his preparing, what he calls persons to by his grace, and which of his own free grace he bestows upon them, and will chiefly lie in the enjoyment of him; now this is represented sometimes as a prize, which is run for, and pressed after; but men, through sinning, come short of it, and must of themselves do so for ever: or rather of the image of God in man, who is called "the image and glory of God", 1 Corinthians 11:7, which consisted externally in government over the creatures; internally, in righteousness and holiness, in wisdom and knowledge, in the bias of his mind to that which is good, and in power to perform it; of all which he is come short, or deprived by sinning.
Vincent's Word Studies

Have sinned (ἥμαρτον)

Aorist tense: sinned, looking back to a thing definitely past - the historic occurrence of sin.[/QUOTE]

 

Winman

Your error knows no boundry...lol...now you are correcting the Apostle Peter who was moved by the Holy Spirit to write this very verse....no surprise, You reject the historic faith as expressed in the confessions and despise these saints teaching.The elect are elected unto good works which God has ordained for us.

By obeying this chapter and all other terms of the covenant.

Yes...God elects all who are saved...they are called and elected unto salvation.

God's election is sure.Anyone elected will show and manifest it by these good works....faith...without works is dead, being alone

If God does not elect someone....the only thing they will make sure is the degree of conscious eternal torment they get at the white throne judgement. If they are unsaved religious professors they will go through life making light of the DoG.

You should guess less,,,,and obey the command.

If a person is born from above,they will do these things as the Spirit works in them.Anyone who tries to imitate this in the flesh will perish.

If you come to understand the biblical teaching you will see it quite clearly.All those you despise understood it very well.

you are again...mistaken.

I believe and confess the biblical truth of the Covenant death of The Lord Jesus Christ for all the Father has given to Him.This has nothing to do with the issue.

We cannot know what God has not revealed to us. We do know that God has elected a great multitude In Christ. I have the witness of the Holy Spirit and a saving belief of the truth.
Satan would like to put doubt in front of me,but I trust and believe in Jesus ,His word,and promise.

.

Why not...you claim to know all mysteries......now you can read hearts,lol
How can I take you seriously winman....you are all over the place.

Sorry you are frustrated and cannot embrace the truths of grace as I and multitudes of others have testified to.
If you, or I ,or anyone else is ....self deceived....they will be swiftly and justly cast into the second death...and that to the Glory of God.

If it makes you happy ,you can pretend to know whatever you wish.I know Jesus as he has made Himself known to me.You calling me names, like dumb, and a parrot....is nothing as I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he has me firmly in His hand.:thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

Interesting?

As I said, this is a difficult passage, and only by careful study can we come to a common understanding.

What is sin? Is it the act of disobedience to God as written either in the Law or upon our hearts, i.e. our God given conscience? Or, on the other hand, could sin refer to the consequence God applies to "sinful" acts? If sin can refer to the consequence of sinful acts, then "all sinned" could mean either everyone volitionally sinned, or everyone had the consequence of sin applied to them, hence all sinned.

In verse 12 we see that "sin" entered the world, with world referring to mankind. Yet in verse 13 we see that sin was not in the world. If we say both of these "sin references" refer to the same category of sin, we create a paradox, with sin being in the world and not being in the world simultaneously. But if we read further, we get the answer to the problem.

Sin was not "in the world" because they had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, but another "category of sin" i.e. the consequence of Adam's transgression, was in the world - mankind - for the "many" referring to mankind, died. So to die was the consequence of Adam's sin, i.e. to be separated from God.

Thus the many being made sinners refers to the many being made dead, i.e. separated from God.

In summary, "all sinned" refers to all mankind having the consequence of Adam's sin applied to them, rather than each individually volitionally sinning in the likeness of Adam.

Very difficult passage but any other view makes nonsense of the passage. For example, to say we did not die until we volitionally sinned in the likeness of Adam, denies that through the one man's transgression the many were made sinners. This is denied and rewritten to say through each person's own sinful acts, the many are made sinners. Not how it reads.

 

All I know is there has only been one person, created or made or born of woman who has died and is presently alive, and is alive in a higher state than in that in which he had died.

All others are dead who died and those alive and or that will be born will also die, unless they are alive at the appearing and kingdom of the one spoken of above, and then they also will be judged along with those dead.

 

On the other hand, scripture says we are made alive when we are "in Christ" or "together with Christ" or "united with Christ." So "all" those God placed spiritually in Christ are alive whether they have physically died or not.

 

That is very true: They are alive IN Christ but they will die and then be a part of the dead in Christ as those who had died in 1 Thes 4:16,14,&13 and then they can be born again/from above, that being born in the image of the firstborn from the dead, Jesus the Christ into the kingdom of God.

 

Absolutely no verse says we are born anew twice. You continue to muddy the water using the same terms to describe two different things. Our spiritual rebirth is one thing, and our bodily resurrection is another. I asked you to make the distinction clear and you have chosen to continue to muddy the water.

What does it mean, "the dead in Christ?" This refers to those who have been made spiritually alive and then they physically die. But they remain spiritually alive in Christ, for to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. So the phrase means those spiritually alive in Christ who have physically died. There is no second rebirth, just our physical resurrection at the Lord's second coming.