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Featured Does anything we do matter?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Winman, Jul 25, 2011.

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  1. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    Let's say you are a hundred pounds overweight, a chain-smoker, and drink a six pack of beer every day after work. You go to the doctor for your annual checkup and are told you have high blood pressure, diabetes, and your lungs and liver are showing damage. Your doctor recommends you go on an immediate diet, quit smoking and drinking, and go on an exercise program. He warns you that there is a real possibility you could die within five years if you do not change your lifestyle.

    If all things are determined, would this make a difference? Can a man prolong his life by practicing healthy habits? Or is it completely meaningless, when your number is up there is nothing you can do?

    If all things are determined, wouldn't it make more sense to enjoy whatever you desire as it cannot make a difference?
     
  2. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    What?! Are you from the "Let's eat,drink and be merry for tomorrow we may die" school of thought?
     
  3. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Or has he described the doctrine of Kismet (fatalism) as practiced by Islam. Whatever will be will be.
     
  4. jbh28

    jbh28 Active Member

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    The more one tries to understand the sovereignty of God vs man's free will, the more we realize we don't understand it.
     
  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Winman,
    Both things are true....you have an appointed time of death,and yet we are fully responsible as stewards before God;
    James says;
    This is the exciting thing about the D.O.grace...we are not able to die ,until we have completed the good works that God has ordained for us
     
  6. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    Yes, and a MINIMAL understanding of the doctrine of compatibalism will answer this, what I consider to be, silly question.

    God ALWAYS gets his way.

    Man ALWAYS chooses to do what he most wants to do.

    The two facts are compatible. Just because we humans are too ignorant to see how doesn't mean that they aren't.

    The Calvinist ACCEPTS both truths by faith. He knows God's Word TEACHES both.

    The Arminian and the "non-cal" (whatever that is) destroys the Sovereignty of God because he doesn't see how they are compatible and is more interested in preserving MAN'S sovereignty than Gods.
     
  7. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    First, it is not a silly question, I would wager some of the greatest minds have pondered this question. It is a mindless person who accepts whatever they are told without questioning it.

    Second, no one answered the question. Do our actions make a difference? If we go on a diet, quit smoking and drinking, could it prolong our life? Will God allow us to live longer if we do so, or has our number of days been determined before the foundation of the world and nothing we do can alter it?
     
  8. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    Whilst our ultimate end is determined by God, under God's permissive will, man may bring about his own demise by human foolishness.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  9. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    I liked that answer; direct, to the point & true.:thumbs:
     
  10. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Jim, I like to look at it this way...

    God allows us to live the life we have put our stamp of approval on.

    HankD
     
  11. JesusFan

    JesusFan New Member

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    or is he 'railing against" in his view what he thinks Cals teach, that somehow God determines ALL things by predestination, , so just 'relax and be happy!"
     
  12. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Now I'm confused. Where are the staunch Calvinist answers? Some of the Cals believe God ordained that I would eat a ham and cheese sandwich for lunch but now I'm not seeing anyone answer along these lines. What's up wit' that?
     
  13. glfredrick

    glfredrick New Member

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    All things are not determined in the way that you suggest.

    You are describing Allah of Islam, not the God of the Bible.

    Nice try, though. :wavey:
     
  14. glfredrick

    glfredrick New Member

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    No Calvinist says any such thing... You are all arguing against a stereotype and strawman.
     
  15. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    You must not have been reading Luke's posts because he says just that. Every molecule, every motive, every action is directly determined by God.
     
  16. JesusFan

    JesusFan New Member

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    yet God is without Sin, as He cannot sin nor tempt/cause another to sin...
     
  17. glfredrick

    glfredrick New Member

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    Then, I guess that I would disagree with Luke. Oh, and by the way, Luke's name is not Luke. He is using a bibical reference as his screen handle.

    Luke and I disagree on a couple of points, with him going to a place that I cannot always support scripturally. But, that being said, he and I are closer in doctrine than you and I, for at least both of us realize that God is the seat of all authority, not the choice of humankind. Additionally, if one reads Luke's posts carefully, he does not attribute to God all the things -- in the same way -- that you suggest he does. He is careful to draw a distinction between God being in control of all things (to which I agree) and the fact that though God is in control of all things, that God's permissive will "allows" some things that need to be in order to bring God further and greater glory.

    Some, who are at odds with this doctrine, will grasp the "all things" portion of the post and run with it, as you have just proven, ultimatelty saying things about God that are neither biblical nor accurate, nor even what it was that some other poster wrote.
     
    #17 glfredrick, Jul 26, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2011
  18. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Amy as already replied to affirm what I said. I remember when I first started posting here I was told that God predetermined what I would choose for lunch each day. I just tried searching for it, but couldn't find it. The search engine could be more robust.
     
  19. glfredrick

    glfredrick New Member

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    So, just for fun, let's consider what would happen if He did predetermine what you had for lunch. What difference would it make? To you, it still seemed as if you had a choice in the matter, right? How would God's determinative sovereignty make a difference in your life, and what would it be like without it working in the world?

    As a for instance, let's suggest that instead of the lunch you had (determined by God) you chose to go to a local seafood place and have shrimp. No God in the picture, your pure choice. You discover later in the afternoon that you are now severely allergic to shell fish and you spend the next 3 weeks in the hospital recovering, and meanwhile your job has been eliminated, so no insurance coverage. Perhaps in that scenario, God's determinative choice was for your best!

    Of course, this is all a mental exercise, for we cannot "know" with any sense of certainly that God actually determines our lives to this extent. He may, or He may not. I do not believe that the Bible goes far enough for us to completely understand the deeper nuances of taking one or the other position.

    I would, at least, hope that God is determining the course of the particles that make up the sub-atomic structure of the molecules that make up the cosmos. Otherwise, pure random chaos would ensue and we would all be doomed to a fiery death on short order!
     
  20. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    IF you hadn't added motive you would have actually represented me accurately for once.
     
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