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Does being sinless make one holy?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Gina B, Dec 17, 2005.

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  1. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    When all is said and done and those that are in Christ are living on the new earth, will we lose our ability to sin?
    Yes, the question is leading to more. But for now, that's what it is.
     
    #1 Gina B, Dec 17, 2005
  2. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    We will have only one nature then---that is the nature of the Lord Jesus Christ----we will bear that nature which is unable to sin!
     
    #2 blackbird, Dec 17, 2005
  3. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    This may be old and false doctrine creeping up, but perhaps it's also a Baptist belief. Someone please help me out on the authenticity of this thought or not: aren't there going to be new worlds created, after the manner ours is now, and that is where our level of responsibility will be? Much like the heavenly realm has people in position of power and interact on earth, will we be in much the same position then as angels are now?

    That's important for the next question, I promise, as it has to do with our nature's after our season now.
    Then again, if I'm totally wrong and we'll be simply hanging out for eternity with no responsibilities or authorities, my questions regarding that will be pointless...
     
    #3 Gina B, Dec 17, 2005
  4. preacher

    preacher New Member

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    Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
    Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
    2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
    Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

    I can't recall or find any thing on new "worlds" being created, unless you are saying the new heavens ARE new worlds, which could be possible I guess. But I sure don't know why He would create worlds after the fashion of this one NOW. I do know some will have resposibilities, such as the government(for lack of a better word)
    role will be. If I understand right, that will start in the thousand year reign of Christ. Will it carry over to the New Earth, don't know off the top of my head. Also won't we be judging angels, that would put them even under us.
     
    #4 preacher, Dec 17, 2005
  5. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    If everyone is sinless, why do they need government? Wasn't it out of the hardness of people's hearts that God allowed government among his people? Did he not seem quite adverse to the idea of it, saying that if people served God, there was no need for a human leader?
     
    #5 Gina B, Dec 17, 2005
  6. preacher

    preacher New Member

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    Ok you are talking about after the thousand years,
    It may not be gov. as we think, or you may be right. But since the creation there has always been some form of gov. (think family) Husband, Wife then children. Simple, but effective when run correctly.
    I mean there is a Father, Son, & Holy Ghost!
    Gotta run & get Agee!
     
    #6 preacher, Dec 17, 2005
  7. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Jesus will rule from David's throne. There will be no democracy, Christ rules.

    Remember "new heaven" and "new earth" will be crafted from the present, sinful heaven and earth. God will renew these, make perfect, not totally destroy and start over with them. When God created the heavens and earth He declared His work "good". To destroy both and create totally new ones would be admitting the present heaven and earth are not "good". Sin is what has stained them...and God will cleanse both to their original states.
     
    #7 webdog, Dec 17, 2005
  8. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    If we were to have the nature of God, and be sinless, would that not make us part of God, or at the least some type of deity?

    (note that these questions aren't statements, they're meant to provoke thought and answer certain ideas, or at least make sense of them)
     
    #8 Gina B, Dec 17, 2005
  9. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    No. Even with natures similar to God's, we will never BE gods. When we die and we are given perfect, uncorruptible bodies, we will not cease to be human beings. That is what we were created as. We will not be omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient.
     
    #9 webdog, Dec 17, 2005
  10. preacher

    preacher New Member

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    Correct WD but the home isn't a democrocy, don't know the proper term.
    As to the nature of God, we're supposed to have it already for He is in us so we are , technically, part of Him now, as His Children. Us being Deity, never thought or studied on it. I mean the Angels have amazing power in our way of understanding, but then too, they're not considered his children. The Word refers to us as sons & daughters, but I don't find prince & princesses.
    I know in reality it won't matter either way. We'll be with Him & that WILL suffice!!

    i do have another idea on the first part of this thread, about new worlds & such. From what I've come to understand of our Father & our Lord, He(They) are a God of creation, & it's hard to see it ever ending. Now what part we would play I wouldn't even try to guess, but something to wonder on...
     
    #10 preacher, Dec 17, 2005
  11. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    Immortal, uncorruptable, with full knowledge, and the spirit of God in us.
    What couldn't we do?
    Supposably we'll be able to interact with thousands, but what joy would there be in learning?
    We will serve God eternally, but why will he need served? What are his needs?
     
    #11 Gina B, Dec 17, 2005
  12. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    Jesus said that eternal life is knowing God and the Son. John 17.

    At what point would anyone fully know God? There will be plenty to learn and plenty to appreciate and worship, always a little new, always a little more. This life here is just the barest of beginnings.

    In the meantime, I think we can 'figure out' eternity and heaven with just about the same accuracy a child in the womb can figure out a sunset or chocolate pudding.
     
    #12 Helen, Dec 17, 2005
  13. preacher

    preacher New Member

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    Again WD is right, we will never be Gods. I tell ya this thread has me thinking on all kind of possibilties.
    I can think of one thing we won't be able to do...create life.That is Gods ability alone.
    What joy in learning, the flesh says not much, but the Spirit...yearns to be enriched with the full knowledge of our Lord.
    He doesn't need to be served. Doesn't need anything. But I know He desires the love of His creation, He desires fellowship, & to have His children in His presence.
     
    #13 preacher, Dec 17, 2005
  14. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    From the eons of eternity past---there has always been government

    In Heaven--with God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit---the government is called

    Theocracy

    It is natural sinful human nature to resist theocracy and demand democracy---but don't think for a minute that when we get to heaven that we will have democracy!

    Democracy is a government OF THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE and is based upon selfishness!!

    Theocracy is a government OF GOD, FOR GOD, BY GOD and is based upon selflessness!

    IOW---in HEAVEN the only "voice" I will have is to say, "Speak Lord! For your servant heareth!! We will HEAR Him only and always! We will DO for Him only and always!!
     
    #14 blackbird, Dec 17, 2005
  15. preacher

    preacher New Member

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    Amen...and Amen!!
     
    #15 preacher, Dec 17, 2005
  16. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    A little of that old mormonism is creeping in Gina. What it reminds me of.
     
    #16 donnA, Dec 17, 2005
  17. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    In part, that's where some of the ideas come from Donna.
    My motivation behind learning more is not only for my own curiosity, but to be more prepared to counter the arguments of the LDS on some of these things when we discuss doctrine. (and when I get into this part of stuff in school) I usually try to stick with plain and simple, but sometimes the discussions do go further.

    However, this isn't all LDS based. There are Baptists who do believe that we'll rule over planets of people, that our level of authority on them will be based on how we handle our responsibilities as Christians now. I'm not sure where they GET it from, but there are some verses that are used as back-up. I'm in the process of trying to figure that out right now.

    Blackbird, I'm all with you on the theolocracy thing, but for your own safety, don't mention it in the politics forum. I've tried, still got the claw marks! :eek:

    Helen, there could be benefits to understanding more fully just what it is we're preparing ourselves for, couldn't there? For pre-tribs, I'd think that the idea of preparing for something would be very important, as the idea of a rapture before any real tribulation doesn't leave us with a sense of urgency to strengthen for anything but being wafted away.

    Preacher, it's dawning on me that you're not a-mil...did you change on that or was I completely mistaken on that idea? It's been too long since I've seen you in the theo section to remember what your thoughts are!
     
    #17 Gina B, Dec 17, 2005
  18. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    The way I see it is that the Lord is preparing me for what He wants me to be prepared for. Since I have no concept of what eternity really means, I think it's best to depend on Him in this area as well as the other areas of my life.
     
    #18 Helen, Dec 17, 2005
  19. preacher

    preacher New Member

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    Yes Helen...but He gave us imaginations, & as you can see me & Geener are good at using ours.
    Geener..I believe in the millenial reign of Christ if thats what you mean. We'll be there with him. I don't understand all the introcracies but I know its for a thousand years after the tribulation. Then after the thousand years there will be a new earth & a new heaven, but like WD said it will be the old made new....like HE did with us. If I see right the new earth will be the habitation of Israel, & the new Jerusalem ours. Theirs was an earthly promise...ours a heavenly one.
    Now I have a question for you...why do we sing songs about our mansion in heaven when thats not biblical?
     
    #19 preacher, Dec 18, 2005
  20. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    blackbird is exactly right in this thread.

    In the beginning God created all things good, but not incorruptible, but the New Creation is incorruptibe just as God is incorruptible.

    Rom. 1:23
    1 Cor. 15:42 ff
    1 Pet. 1:3-5

    And, as blackbird also pointed out, there is rank in the Godhead. It does not follow therefore that if there is no corruption, there is no purpose in authority.
     
    #20 Aaron, Dec 18, 2005
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