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Featured Does Ephesians 4 Refer to Local Baptst Only Churches?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Yeshua1, Dec 3, 2016.

  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    1As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. 2Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. 4There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
    7But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. 8This is why ita says:
    “When he ascended on high,
    he took many captives
    and gave gifts to his people.”b
    9(What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regionsc ? 10He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.) 11So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
    14Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming. 15Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. 16From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.

    Did paul mean this to refer just to the local Baptist churches, to all Christian local assemblies, or to the Church as the Body of Christ itself?
     
  2. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    I'd say a combination of the local church (not specifically Baptist) and the universal church. You can read it both ways without causing contradiction.
     
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    That would be my understanding also, as while God gives to local assemblies those gifted person to build them up, he also as given such to whole Body, and he did want unity in local churchs, as in 1 Corithians, but also here inthhis passge to all who name Jesus!
     
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  4. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    to "local Baptist churches" only - NO!
    There were no local Baptist churches in NT times.
     
  5. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    So what were they? How can you deny that bible believing churches existed in bible times? Did Jesus found unbelieving churches? Did Paul plant unbelieving churches?
     
  6. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Where did I say there were no Bible Believing churches in the NT -
    I said there were no BAPTIST churches.
     
  7. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    So, Baptist churches are not bible believing? Then why are you a Baptist?

    But a Baptist church is a bible believing church.

    Unless, of course, you are under the mistaken impression the word "baptist" is a denominational name. It isn't. It is a doctrinal identity. The early churches shared a doctrinal identity with bible believing baptist churches today. And we have two promises from the bible, one from the Lord Himself (Matthew 16:18 I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it) and one from Jude (. . . the faith which was once delivered unto the saints) that the faith of the early church would continue until now, and even until His return.
     
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  8. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    In practice its both
     
  9. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    For some, yes, it is. But I know a lot of churches with "baptist" on the sign that aren't. And I know a lot of churches without "baptist" on the sign that are. :)

    For instance, our neighbor in Spring Valley was Shadow Mountain Community Church, pastored by David Jeremiah. You would never know it by the name, but it is affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention. So, it is not the name that makes a church baptist. It is what they believe. :)
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Think that there were NO Baptist churches in Acts, but they did teach/preach and worship like we do now a days ..
     
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  11. Bro. James

    Bro. James Well-Known Member
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    What if "The Church" is not universal--visible or invisible?

    Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

    Bro. James
     
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Correct, swhile the NT churc in acts taugt andhelp probably to "Baptist" views, there were officially no Baptists until much later on in church history!
     
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  13. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    WHAT!!! John the Baptist was not the first pastor of the First Baptist Church of Jerusalem?
     
  14. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    No. Jesus was. I don't know anyone who thinks John the Baptist was ever a pastor, let alone the first pastor of the church at Jerusalem.

    As I understand the succession it was:

    Jesus
    Peter
    James
    Who Knows?
     
  15. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    So, there were no baptist churches but there were baptist churches?
     
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  16. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    A baptist church is a church that believes:

    Biblical Authority
    Autonomy of the Local Church
    Priesthood of the Believer
    Two Ordinances (baptism and the Lord's Supper)
    Individual Soul Liberty
    Saved, Baptized Church membership
    Two Offices (Pastor/Elder/Overseer & Deacon)

    So, you are saying that no such churches existed in the 1st century AD?

    And that such churches did not exist until the late 16th and early 17th centuries?
     
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  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    No, just that they were not called Baptists, as thoe churches historically existed much later !
     
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    No , that those NT churches were called just Christian church, and tha Historical Baptist ones came much later!

    Baptit like teaching/doctrines were from early on, but not the label!
     
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Church of Rome thinks they do!
     
  20. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I realize that English is a second language for you, but what part of the definition of "baptist" didn't you understand, or what part do you deny the early churches believed?
     
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