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Does Freewill stop at salvation?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Dale-c, Jun 28, 2006.

  1. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    Just curious, if you believe in freewill to choose God, do you not believe in freewill to get out of it?
    If you can't get out once you get in, (eternal security) then you must not have freewill after you are saved.

    Just wondering what people think.
     
  2. webdog

    webdog Active Member

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    This is like saying you have free will to kill someone, then you have free will to unkill that person. Justification is a done deal.
     
  3. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    The whole debate of freewill is to get Salvation. After you get it why worry about it anymore.:wavey:
     
  4. canadyjd

    canadyjd New Member

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    Because, if it is up to you to get it, then it is up to you to keep it. In which case, you would certainly lose it.

    peace to you:praise:
     
  5. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Now you putting words in my mouth. I believe in a strong
    God who is able to save me if I will believe and keep me until the end as the Scripture says. I go by the Scriptures. I could care less what men say for if I yet seek to please men then I should not be a servant of God.:sleeping_2:
     
  6. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    webdog,

    When it comes to salvation, are you saying that we kill our sin nature?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  7. Nicholas25

    Nicholas25 New Member

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    I believe in Free Will but I don't believe you have free will to come to God. The Bible teaches us that the Spirit has to draw us. I don't think that one can wake up and say "I'm going to get saved today."

    I don't want to get any deeper than that because it always gets ugly on here and I don't want that. I have found that most of the time when the debate of eternal security versus free will comes up both sides seem to miss understand the other.
     
  8. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    A good friend of mine who does not believe in eternal security stated that God would never leave us but we could leave Him. It would make sense to me that if it was our decision to get into it, it would also be our choice to get out of it.

    Of, course you realize I have no scripture to back up this us since I believe that A is wrong therefore B is wrong too, but if A were right, B would naturally follow.
     
  9. skypair

    skypair New Member

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    Course, this would all be like saying that Abraham could "back out of" his covenant with God. 'Cause that is what we are IN when we receive Christ as Savior.

    No, no saved one day, backing out the next. God GIVES repentance, faith, security, gifts, eternal life, etc. And if we BELIEVE something and it is then "proven" to us ("Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things believed."), then why would we anyway??

    "Backing out" is a silly premise to beging with.

    skypair
     
  10. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    I don't know why one would WANT to. But the point is, if it is our own freewill that gets us into the whole thing, then that same freewill should get us out.
    Now, I do not believe it is our freewill that chooses God, but it is God that chooses us.
     
  11. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    We said NO Dale what part of NO do you not understand?
     
  12. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    I understand that you said no. I believe your position is inconsistent.
    How can you freely get into something but not freely get out of it?
    If you can't get out of it, you no longer have a freewill.
     
  13. webdog

    webdog Active Member

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    This is false. Did you read my response? If you kill someone, you have the freedom to not kill that person. Once it is done (as is with justification), it's done. You can't unkill a person, and you can't be unjustified. Very conistent.
     
  14. webdog

    webdog Active Member

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    I never mentioned sin nature. It's an analogy. Both are permanent.
     
  15. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Webdog,

    Would you please clarify so that I don't misrepresent you? What exactly is it that you believe is done with justification and how does that relate with your analogy of killing someone?

    Thanks,

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  16. webdog

    webdog Active Member

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    In response to the OP (if you believe in freewill to choose God, do you not believe in freewill to get out of it?), I was only showing that a freewill decision to do something does not necessarily mean the freewill is there to undo it. I believe justification is an event. When we are seald by the Blood of Christ, we are sealed.
     
  17. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Would you agree with me that the reason we need justification is because of our sin nature which leaves us spiritually dead and hopeless? Would you further agree with me that justification is the means by which there is a spiritual rebirth, or how God brings us back to spiritual life? Or, do you think that justification is where God kills the sin nature? I think I understand what you are trying to say, but I want to make sure.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  18. webdog

    webdog Active Member

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    Yes, I agree with that. I don't believe the sin nature is killed off (the killing analogy was only for comparison, I could have used rape, eating, anything that once the task is completed, it cannot be undone).
     
  19. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    This analogy makessense.

    How about this one..like getting on a plane, once you are on it, you can't get back off until it lands right?
     
  20. Bookworm

    Bookworm New Member

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    Well, people jump out of planes all the time. I like to use the analogy of a family. Once you are born into a family, you are a member of that family. You can sever ties with the other people in the family, but severing the ties does not cause you to stop being related by birth to the other members of the family. Once you are a member of God's family, you have the free will to make choices about your obedience to God, but you cannot choose to not be a member of the family, and God will deal with you as a father does, regarding your choices of disobedience.
     
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