Does God Exist?

That is somewhat like the argument about whether your breath is hot or cold. I believe that was Socratic.

Cheers,

Jim

PS. Thanks for relating the OP's film at the outset.

 

One thing to learn from this thread is to never argue with an atheist on the rationality of God. It will invariably end up just an argument. Always argue from the life of Christ. This only requires a validated aspect of history.

Cheers,

Jim

 

Tinytim, I liked your post. Thanks.

 

It's true that the scriptures say man can know God by virtue of the natural world, and that all men are without excuse. That does not mean that all men can know salvation by the natural world and are therefore without excuse. But mroe to the OP point, "knowing God" is not the same as "proving God exists".

I have known God for most of my life, but I don't often have a need or desire to prove His existance. My faith is sufficient to know He exists.

 

Interesting quote! It took awhile to find it.

From the book: Dr. Franz Hildebrandt, Mr Valiant-for-Truth by Amos Cresswell and Max Tow
Appendix 1: Only Believe – And You’re There, an attempt at a Lutheran Catechism; by Dietrich Bonhoeffer and Franz Hildebrandt

Now there's a man who lived his faith!

Rob

 

This is what scripture says about man. We can add 2+2=4 Design and nature points at the conclusion.....there is a designer.

 

Madison, Jefferson VS. Franklin

At the earliest meetings of Congress, or was it the Constitutional Convention, Madison and Jefferson didn't want clergy to open the sessions with prayer. Franklin did.

 

Kinda sorta, not quite. Dr. Franklin proposed a motion for daily prayer led by a clergyman. But the Convention adjourned without passing the motion. There was intense debate on the topic right to the end of the Convention.

Amusingly, Madison was an Episcopalian. Although he expressed comments of rationalistic deism, he was a devout Christian. Jefferson and Franklin, OTOH, expressed no particular interest in the Christian faith.

 

Interesting. Thanks.

That would explain what I read about Madison claiming, "the total separation of church and state" was the best thing to happen to the piety of the "priesthood" and the public. I don't know where and when he said it, but have read the quote.

I tried to find it just now, for a few secs, and came up with this instead. Interestingly, it says Madison's enthusiasm for separation of church and state was born of his youthful witnessing of persecution of Baptist ministers in Culpepper County.

http://www.loc.gov/loc/madison/hutson-paper.html

 

Another factor was Madison's relationship with John Leland, a Baptist minister ffrom Virginia. Here is a link.

Tim Reynolds