Does God Know you?

God chasens us for our good, so we may learn and not do it again. Does God punish us or are we actually punishing ourselves because of the forces of good and evil that God has already put in place and these forces by there very nature create a cause and effect?

What possible good can be learned from spending 1000 years in torture when there is no possible chance at all that one can still sin on the other side of mortality?

Your 1000 years of torture would be simply pure punishment and no lesson to learn for it will never be repeated again in eternity. These will come out of their punishment and join the rest in blissful paradise for ever and ever.

So then what is the "good reason" for sending a child to darkness? What can the child learn in darkness that it might be careful to never do again? Remember, sin is gone on the other side. No more temptation, no more lack of love for God. No more disobedience.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

God said He is not to be mocked you will reap what you sow. If you sow to the flesh you will reap corruption. If you sow to the Spirit you will reap life.

That has nothing to do with eternal salvation, so unless someone is going to reap corruption for eternity where do you suggest that comes into play?

He also said that we will be rewarded for what we have done in the body whether good or bad. Payment is going to be given whether good or bad.

 

As I mingle with the body of Christ, I find that the lazy are not motivated by warnings of losses, whatever that may be defined as, and I see the loyal motivated by only love for their Savior. I don't find anyone who tells me they are working to stay out of the darkness that is to come for the lazy.

But the sad part is that in your view, even those who are loving Jesus and doing the will of the Father are told "you still might be rejected" because those criers "thought" they were doing the will of the Father and found themselves left out!

This is sad. To teach a disciple to honor and obey as the scriptures teach BUT you can only hope you will reign with Christ. You may have to go to outer darkness even if you tried your best. Boy, that really motivates me!

You know, your view may have some motivation merit if you did not slip in that "unknown" part. But I guess you have to in order to salvage Matt 7 as an example for entering the Kingdom.

God Bless!

 

Absolutely, we are in agreement here but I believe your original question is misleading... It shouldn't be "Does God Know you?" but rather "Do you Know God?".

I believe I know where you are coming from but I see this not as a revelation for God but for the individual whom believed he lived in intimacy with God. When our Saviour stated "I never knew you", He was speaking with regard to the 'presumption of those whom would claim intimacy with God'.

Your Thoughts?

 

I agree, but your pov adds, However you might deligently seek to follow God's commands and still go into darkness. NOwhere is this written yet you use Matt 7 to declare that it is so and in so doing you make the doctrine hopeless.

And if we are? And if we really sought them actively? We still could end up rejected, a surprise! Like those in Matt 7. Where is my motivation?

Can you give me just one that says we can lose our crowns?

Seeking is what you correctly teach. Security is not there!

God Bless!

 

When discussing crowns, it's important to remember there are two words associated with crowns, stephanos and diadema. Below is every occurrence of both, and you can click the link to download the parsing of each verse. Diadema has to do with sovereignty, while stephanos has to do with a victor’s wreath (crown) or reward. We can earn a stephanos, but diadema only has to do with the Godhead.

Stephanos can be found in: Stephanos )
MAT 27: 29 MAR 15: 17 JON 19: 2 JON 19: 5 1CO 9: 25 PHL 4: 1
1TH 2: 19 2TM 4: 8 JAM 1: 12 1PE 5: 4 REV 2: 10 REV 3: 11
REV 4: 4 REV 4: 10 REV 6: 2 REV 9: 7 REV 12: 1 REV 14: 14

Diadema can be found in: (Diadema )
[FONT=&quot]REV 12: 3 REV 13: 1 REV 19: 12[/FONT]

 

Both examples that you gave are "stephanos", not "diadema".

BTW, the two are not necessarily exclusive. One who earns and wears a "stephanos" can also rule, but as a victor, not as royalty.

Also, I didn't express myself exactly the way that I meant when I said that "diadema" only has to do wit the Godhead. I mean in the Scriptures, that's the only way it's referenced.

 

Why are you arguing the figurative and ignoring the literal? Jesus said they were likened to a man that had built his house on sand, because they literally did not do the works that Jesus spoke of.

 

Funny, in this thread you find five of us who are saying they are motivated by fear of losing the kingdom.

Brother Lacy is to polite to point out the problem with this reasoning. If the "unknown" part doesn't apply to reward for believers, then it applies to eternal salvation. You are saying that I may live my life thinking that I am truly a saved disciple of Christ, only to find out that I never really had a saving relationship with the Lord and can be cast away not for a thousand years, but all eternity.

 

Interesting point. I have never thought about it like that.

 

Why? The "unknown" part is from your pov. I don't see your "unknown" pov in scripture. If it does not exist then how does it default then to eternal security for me? It only would from your pov.

My foundation is not built upon "unknowns". I know from scripture what works will be accepted and what works will not. I know from scripture what works will be burned and what works will not. I know from scripture that I will have some works that burn and some that will not.

My Hope of Glory is in all the promisses of God through Jesuis Christ. I do not doubt the word of God when it tells me to Do the will of the Father that #1 He has told me what that will is and #2 when I do it I will not somehow be surprised that I have not done it.

I have a true Hope of Glory because i have a knowledge of right and wrong given me in Christ and His word. I do not have to fear my Savior. I do not have to "hope" He will accept me for my works. I trust He will burn out the bad in me and refine the good. I WELCOME His refining fire! I look forward to it! Lest I should believe that I have been PERFECT!

There is no fear for me "in that day". There is for your pov. I do not believe God tells me how to do good and then when i believe I have done it He will say "but i never knew you for your works". God does not tell me how to run the race and then say "sorry, you made a mistake back in July of 2007, now I know your sincerely don't remember it nor thought you even did make a mistake, but nonetheless, off to the torture chambers with ya"!

My "Hope of Glory" is based on God's Word being true, it is based on Christ in me!

The only "hope of glory" I see in your doctrine is hope in yourself. You hope you will be accepted. That is not "Hope of Glory". That is "hope of acceptance"

I do not hope to be accepted. I know I will be accepted. That is a different kind of Hope then yours. God has equiped me with Jesus Christ and has equiped me with His word. It is very silly to believe that God has instructed us what to do and how to do it just to find ourselves cast into outerdarkness after having done our very best to do as He has said. That is preaching "HOPELESSNESS"!!

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

I think you are misunderstanding what we believe to a degree. I believe God's will is pretty clear for believers, and we should have a certain confidence if we are walking in fellowship with Christ and obeying His commandments. I don't believe any of us can say with certainty that we are absolutely obeying those commandments, and we must constantly examine ourselves and search the scriptures, allowing the Holy Spirit to continue to work in us to bring us ever closer to the goal of perfection. This is nothing shocking, I think most people would agree.

Philippians 3:13-14
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Whatever this prize Paul is referring to is, it is something that we strive to obtain our whole lives. We don't sit down and say 'I know I have it coming to me', unless perhaps, like Paul, God reveals this to us at the end of our ministry.

But to say that this verse is speaking of unsaved people:
Matthew 7:22-23
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
This would imply that any one of us might come to the same false conclusion, and be none the wiser.

 

Scripture interprets scripture. Your pov declares that Matt 7 as well as 1 Cr 3 is the JSOC.

"And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ." (1 Cr 10:4)

"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ." (1 Cr 3:11)

"Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;" (12)

As you can see, ALL of the men spoken of here are building on the foundation of Jesus Christ. NONE are building on sand here. We know all of these workers are saved because of several reasons spoken of in this passage but these two are the topic at hand #1 They are building on the foundation of Jesus Christ #2 verse (15) "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

You don't believe that rock and sand are both scriptural figures of Christ do you?

Now back to the "Therefore" example of Christ.....

Originally Posted by steaver
Christ must be the foundation. No man can lay any other foundation and have it accepted. All works NOT built upon the foundation of Jesus Christ are unacceptable from the start.

What was missing from the criers works? The foundation of Jesus Christ!

(24)..Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: (25)..And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

Now compare that to the workers of iniquities.....

(26)...And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

The criers had no rock, no Jesus Christ. They had sand.

The criers had no works meet for repentance.


Here is the key points;
1) they were rejected because "I never knew you" (period) Do not add "for your works".
2) they were answered "workers of iniquities" because they had wanted works to justify themselves before God APPART from any foundation in Christ.

I don't see how it can say anything else UNLESS you add and speculate, the very thing I get accused of.

Jesus said they were likened to a man that had built his house on sand, because they literally did not have the proper foundation that is Jesus Christ. "I never knew you"



God Bless! :thumbs: