Does God love the sinner?

I don't find the verse that sez "God hates the sin but loves the sinner". Will God turn any into hell that He does not hate? Body parts are connected to people, not sins. If God hates your tongue, doesn't He also hate you? After all, it's attached to you. Did He drown/burn the sin or the sinner? Was there a big ol'smiley face on the side of the Ark that said, "Smile~God loves you"?

God hates sinners and would call them to repentance. They can be brought under the love of God, but till this happens wrath abides on them. God does not love everybody...He did at the foot of the Cross, (God so LOVED-past tense) but after that it's your choice. He does not love Christ-rejecting sinners.

John 3:18 "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

You must be a CHILD OF GOD to be entitled to God's love.

 

God dislikes sinners. He doesn't withhold his love from sinners. You're presuming that when GOd hates (dislikes) he withholds love. That is biblically incorrect. If God hates sinners as you put it, then we're all in trouble, because we're all sinners, regardless of our state of grace.

That makes no sense. Why would God love everyone only once? Either God never loved everyone, or God has always loved everyone. This "light-switch" type of love is inconsistent with the nature of a Heavenly Father described by Jesus. Additionally, the bible verses that discuss loving/hating the sin/sinner are also independent of one's state of grace. They focus instead on a person's sinning. A saed person is no more or less a sinner than an unsaved person. The only thing that makes a difference is that a saved person's repented sins are forgeven at the moment of repentance. However, since we're all sinners, and we sin all the time, every one of us, you and me included, have at any given time, sins we haven't repented of. So to one extent or another, everyone, saved or unsaved, in an unrepentant sinner.

Again, you're presuming that love and hate are opposites, and don't exist at the same time for a person. That's biblically incorrect. God love you. He also dislikes you and your sinful actions when you sin.

 

Johnv said:

That's funny. But the Bible in the Old Testament said God hates sinners, whom he also calls the wicked.


The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup.
(KJV PS. 11:5-6);

The Lord tests the righteous, But the wicked and the one who loves violence His soul hates.

Upon the wicked He will rain coals; Fire and brimstone and a burning wind Shall be the portion of their cup. (NKJV PS.11:5-6);

Jehovah trieth the righteous; But the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Upon the wicked he will rain snares; Fire and brimstone and burning wind shall be the portion of their cup.(ASV PS. 11:5-6);

(Here the thought is altered and the righteous and the wicked lumped as one in testing, but, this is not a thread about accuracy of versions, so....)
The LORD tests the righteous and the wicked, And the one who loves violence His soul hates.
Upon the wicked He will rain snares; Fire and brimstone and burning wind will be the portion of their cup. (NAS PS. 11:5-6);

The LORD examines both the righteous and the wicked. He hates everyone who loves violence.
He rains down blazing coals on the wicked, punishing them with burning sulfur and scorching winds. (NLT Ps. 11:5-6);

The LORD tests the righteous and the wicked, and his soul hates him that loves violence.
On the wicked he will rain coals of fire and brimstone; a scorching wind shall be the portion of their cup. (RSV Ps. 11:5).

I did a search on the word 'dislike' at Crosswalk and out of 23 translations this translation called The Message with one verse in the Old Testament, verse 9 of Psalm 69, that had the word 'dislike' in it, and it had nothing to do with God disliking sinners, but of David or whoever wrote that psalm being disliked by his family for loving God.

God hates sinners, which is why He sent Christ, to save sinners, and which is why saved sinners cannot ever be in danger with God anymore because if they can ever be threatened by God's wrath after Christ paid for their sins, then His blood is worth nothing at all. Our state of Grace is despite what we are, not because of what we are.

 

You, too, are presuming that when God "hates", then he withholds love. At the risk of repeating myfels, the OT word translated "hate" actually referrs to severe dislike. It does NOT mean "hate" as in "withholding love". You can love someone and dislike them at the same time. God does this.

 

How do some of you preach the gospel?
Do you really say "God hates what you are doing and He hates you. He hates you but so loved the world that he sent His only begotten Son so that everyone who believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." Is that the message you are preaching?

I mean... come on! The first Bible verse a child learns by heart says exactly the opposite. God sent Jesus because He loves the sinner (John 3:16)! God is love the NT says... is there hate in love? Is God divided? The word "hate" is also translated in the Bible (NAS) as "turn against". And that´s in line with God´s Word in Psalm 34:16 "The face of the LORD is against them that do evil..." So we see that "hate" means "turn against", God is love and there is no literal "hate" in love. He loved the world so much that He gave Jesus. And He still loves the world so much that it still has a chance to repent.

 

Whew! Thanks JiL, I was starting to think I was the only one who understood that.

 

Where does it say God loves the sinner? John 3:16 says "loved"...past tense. When the N.T. speaks of God's love, it either speaks of His love for sinners in the PAST tense or His love for Christians in the PRESENT tense. Can you find where it says God loves everybody?

 

"Loved" is refferring to "sent", which is past tense. To say "God so loves the world that he sent" is actually incorrect grammar. Use of the word "loved" hre should not in any way imply that the act of loving was a one time thing. No, it was the act of "sending" that was the one-time thing.

I've already addressed the theological attributes of this thinking at the above post:
http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/3/2225/2.html#000021

 

Why did He love Jacob but hated Essau?

 

Assuming you're referring to Romans, we see that the Greek word "hated" is miseo referrs to detestation, that is, dislike. It is NOT the opposite of love, as I've already stated numerous times. Additionally, if you look at how Esau lived his life, you see how detestable of a man he was. Esau sold his birthrights for his own desire of food, to his brother Jacob. While it's not a common Sunday School conception, the truth is that Esau was so careless of his birthright responsibilities that his actions of using his birthright as a chip in a poker game showed his true character. Meanwhile, although Jacob was a sinner in his own right, he took the responsibility, perhaps not fully realizing the weight of them, and bore them. But the idea that Jacob "stole" Esau's birthright is a myth. Esau wasn't worthy of his birthright.

 

Strong's Concordance lists hate as from the Hebrew word written in English as sane, pronounced sawnay (#8130), a primary root signifying to hate personally, or on a personal level. God hates sin, and God hates the sinner.
Johnv is using a word that waters down the emotion God has signified for sin and sinners, which is a personal hatred, not just intense dislike, but, a total rejection of, the sin and the sinner, since sin a personal affront to God.

I guess that's what it is with the world today, and neo-evangelicals. They just want to present the loving side of God (which, by the way, is only for His people whom He redeemed), and deny the hating side of God, which is why this world will be burned up pretty soon, and unredeemed sinners whom God left in their sins will be punished with the fires of hell.

Oh, and I'd like to say that while Jesus Christ came and died for sinners, these sinners were those to whom He sovereignly chose to have mercy on.

JIL said:

Yeah, right. And I guess, Peter was simply stating a myth when he said this world will be totally destroyed soon.

 

sane' referrs to being an enemy. In fact, sane' plays off of the hebrew word 'ahab, which, while translated "love" in the OT, it actually means affection. However, God is a God of agape love, which is affected by neither sane' nor 'ahab.

Referring to sane' as being dislike, or referring to turning away, is consistent with its Hebrew meaning. Referring to it as the withholding of agape love is not.

 

The world system and this earth will be destroyed. But James 5:7 "Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it...". God calls the soon-to-be-saved "precious fruit". And He is waiting for it. It is precious to Him. Remember, God is the one who wants to get people saved.

Romans 5:8 "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

God demonstrates His love to the sinner by giving Jesus His son. How can you discuss something away God clearly demonstrates?

 

Don't yall forgit the Psalm of integrity, Psalm 15. You are to despise the wicked also.

 

ok... You can't have love without hate and you can't have hate without judgment and you can't have judgment without reprove and rebuke.
Right?

 

Does God love the sinner ?

Which sinner ? Every sinner ? All sinners ? Some sinners ? Johnv and JIL seem to be saying that God loves all sinners. Is this scriptural ?
If God loves all sinners, why then will he leave many to be judged at the last day ? If God loves this fallen world of sinners enough to give His only begotten Son for it, why then will He eventually destroy this world ? If Jesus Christ died for all sinners, why is there need to even mention hell and punishment in the Bible and in preaching ? Is His blood insufficient to atone for the sins of all sinners ? Is His resurrection a guarantee of eternal life for those He died for, which is all sinners, or is it not ?

 

Romans 5:8
"But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

Question: What does God demonstrate?