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Does God Only Save the Worthy?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by thatbrian, Jan 29, 2018.

  1. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member

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    Does God limit salvation to those who are worthy of it, in some way? Did He set up a system in which only those who were righteous enough to acknowledge and appreciate salvation, before they received it would get it?

    Or, does God save sinners? Does He save His enemies? Does He "look down the corridors of time" and see rebellious sinners who would nail His Son to a cross, and save them in spite of their rebellion?

    If you hold to a "God chose me because He knew that I would choose Him" worldview, please interact with the above. Please reconcile the conflicting ideas above.
     
  2. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Active Member
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    Firstly, those two ideas aren't actually in contra-distinction.
    No one thinks that God is saving the "worthy".

    Those are two distinctly separate issues you raised and they don't intersect in any way.
    Thus, there's no "reconciliation" of those ideas needed as you've expressed it, because you have not pointed out an inconsistency.

    Most, or many people, don't actually have the "look down the corridors of time" philosophy...
    Also commonly known as "simple foreknowledge".
    You aren't likely to get a lot of hits on this one.
    If you don't, that's why.
    It's not as though the only available options are five-point Calvinism and simple foreknowledge.
    Some here likely hold to it, but not many, and of those who do, man's "worthiness" is not at issue.
     
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    there is also the ole Corporate election plan of God that concerns His church as being the elected one, and us having to freely decide to get included in that church election!
     
  4. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member

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    I agree. No one (non-Cal) will admit the conflict. It remains, however.
     
  5. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Active Member
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    There is no conflict, as you've expressed it....
    They aren't the same ideas.

    The "Simple Foreknowledge View" is not commonly held anyway.
    But whether it is or isn't it simply has nothing to do with the "worthiness" of whoever comes to Christ...that's my point.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Too often, imo, the divisiveness is offering a decision or even discussion on a basis that selection of one concept is total rejection of another.

    For example: Christ came to save sinners, that is Scripture truth.

    Yet, there is abundant authority to be found in Scriptures that God also inspects the heart and attends to such as do what is right and wrong.

    The blessings of Christ’s statements in Matthew 5 are not conditional upon one being saved. Indeed, it must be acknowledged that many of the blessing and cursing from God expressed throughout the Scripture are irregardless of Salvation.

    Therefore, God acknowledges both those that do right, and yet will be lost, and such that will be saved.

    For example: My earthly father had many tools. He was skillful in many trades. Those tools were all useful, some were better in design, refinement, and precision, but not all were given to me for safe keeping. Only those in which my Father allowed and gave to my keeping do I have.

    Salvation is not granted upon the sinfulness or lack of any person, but upon that purposeful choice of the Father.

    “He desires all to be saved,” but knowing none have His desires in their heart to be saved has selected from those unwilling the adopted not based upon merit but upon His purpose.
     
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