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Featured Does Job 32:8 define the meaning of inspiration at 2 Timothy 3:16?

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Logos1560, Sep 4, 2017.

  1. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Active Member
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    KJV-only author William Grady asserted that “the first and most critical usage [of the word inspiration] is found in Job 32:8” (Given By Inspiration, p. 90). William Grady contended: “As Job is the oldest book in the Bible, we marvel that the first writer of Scripture ‘just happens’ to record the definitive statement on inspiration” (p. 90).

    Concerning 2 Timothy 3:16 and Job 32:8, KJV-only author Jack McElroy also claimed: “Comparing the two helps you understand how the Bible defines the word [inspiration]” (Which Bible Would Jesus Use, p. 241).
     
  2. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    I'm still trying to process "Job is the oldest book of the Bible". Job quotes Psalms and isnt referenced until Ezekiel. Seems at best this book is from around the time of the exile.

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  3. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    But no it does not define biblical inerrancy. It seems I'm context it is reffering to the understanding and wisdom of mankind* and the Spirits role in helping us do that .

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  4. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    Hmmmm. Job was probably a contemporary of the Patriarchs.

    Job 3:16 is quoted in Psalm 58:8.
    Job 5:3 is quoted in Psalm 37:35, 36.
    Job 5:10 is quoted in Psalm 65:9.

    And on and on and on and on. :)
     
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  5. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Active Member
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    After citing Job 32:8, Jack McElroy asserted: “According to the Bible, inspiration not only applies to the original autographs but it’s also an ongoing ministry of the Holy Spirit whereby he gives men (including you) understanding of the words of God” (p. 233).
     
  6. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Active Member
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    Perhaps some KJV-only authors are trying to find another way to try to support their new interpretation of 2 Timothy 3:16 with their appeal to Job 32:8.

    Do these two verses use the same word in the same exact sense concerning the same exact subject that would indicate that they should be considered parallel passages? Does the use of the same English word “inspiration” to translate two different words in two different verses in different contexts prove that these two verses are actually both about the same subject--the giving of the Scriptures by inspiration to the prophets and apostles?

    Is it clearly demonstrated by KJV-only advocates that the assertion (Job 32:8) made by Elihu is about the same subject of the Scriptures as the verse in 2 Timothy 3:16 is? Does Elihu actually define the meaning of inspiration at 2 Timothy 3:16? Would a possibly more obscure or less clear use of an English word be properly considered the key to understanding a clearer use of that same word? Has it been soundly demonstrated that the Hebrew word used in Job 32:8 has the exact, same meaning as the Greek adjective used in 2 Timothy 3:16? The Greek adjective at 2 Timothy 3:16 is actually translated in the KJV by five words [“given by inspiration of God”], not by one word [inspiration]. Do these KJV-only authors ignore or avoid any consideration of how the same Hebrew word translated “inspiration” at Job 32:8 is translated in over twenty other verses in the KJV’s Old Testament? Could any of the other verses where the same Hebrew word is used contribute to understanding its use at Job 32:8? Would presenting one result of “the inspiration of the Almighty” [“giveth them understanding”] actually provide Elihu’s clear definition of it?

    According to the doctrine of Bible inspiration, are all the words stated by Job’s three friends and Elihu true and directly from God or are all their words recorded by inspiration of God as they had stated them regardless of whether they were right or wrong in some of them?

    Is Job 32:8 proven soundly to be the key to understanding 2 Timothy 3:16 as these KJV-only authors alleged? Do KJV-only authors truly prove that Job 32:8 presents the “definitive statement on inspiration” of the Scriptures?
     
  7. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    That is not inspiration. It is illumination.
     
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  8. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    I don't know Hebrew.....you do I believe. But I read that Job uses a late Hebrew Vocabulary. Is that true?

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  9. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    It is hard to say. Job seems to use some phrases that may be the result of the introduction of Aramaicisms into the Hebrew language, but that may be in the eye of the beholder.

    The use of certain articles in Hebrew can often be used to date a poem (as Job is) and Job does display the more ancient use of the articles, but again, that may be due to the structured traditional nature of Hebrew poetry.

    Job lacks references to historical events known to the Jews and reflects a foreign cultural background not associated with the Jews.

    Uz was not located in or near Israel.

    Job’s friend, Eliphaz, came from Teman, not Israel.

    The patriarchal family-clan organization reflects the time of Abraham rather than after the Exodus

    The offering of sacrifice by the head of the family rather than a priest reflects a time before the Exodus.

    Bildad was short for Yabil Dadum, a name found in cuneiform sources of the second millennium B.C.

    The Talmud sees Job as a contemporary of the Patriarchs.

    Job's longevity is keeping with the longevity of the Patriarchs.

    And the list goes on and on.

    One explanation for the language issues may be that Job was originally written in the language of Uz and translated by a later scribe, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, of course, who would have introduced contemporary (to the scribe) Aramaicisms into the translation.

    I believe Job was a contemporary of the Patriarchs, but will not break fellowship with someone who believes it is post-exodus or even post-exilic. :)
     
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  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    One common view of the book of Job is that it was written late, near the exile as someone noted, it is set during patriarchal times. Thus the story may be set near the time of Abraham.
     
  11. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    The same word translated "inspiration" in Job 32:8 is translated "breath" in 33:4.

    The Spirit of God hath made me, And the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.
    Job 33:4 (AV 1873)​

    It's the same word used in Genesis 2:7,

    And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Genesis 2:7 (AV 1873)
    The NKJV correctly renders the word in Job 32:8,

    But there is a spirit in man, And the breath of the Almighty gives him understanding. Job 32:8 (NKJV)
    IMO, the AV mistranslated Job 32:8; it is strange, unusual and a bit misleading.

    Rob
     
    #11 Deacon, Sep 5, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2017
  12. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    Don't be too hard on the KJV. ונשׁמת (neshawmaw) means "breath" certainly.

    But "inspiration" means to "breathe into." God "breathed into" man that understanding.

    God "breathed into" man the breath of life and he became a living soul.

    God "breathed into" His word and the word became the Living word.

    I prefer "breath" but, in the context of early 17th century English I can see how they connected "inspiration" with "breath(ed into)". :)
     
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  13. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    Agree

    Many of the early versions used the word, perhaps drawing their inspiration from the Vulgate.

    I think it adds meaning rather than properly translating meaning.

    Rob
     
  14. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    McElroy thus sets us up for the Ruckmanian doctrine of advanced revelation through the KJV, correcting the originals.
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Could have been written down at that time, but many hold that the actual events recorded historically happened at time of Abraham.
     
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, even to the extent of correcting the Greek and Hebrew "errors" in their texts!
     
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    What word best fit though the intent of the author?I doubt the author of Job was giving to us th doctrine definition for inspiration as God gave to paul for us to have!
     
  18. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    You got it.
     
  19. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    I don't deny that. *Based on what I read about the Hebrew used, that seems likley.

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  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    That point is really "stupid" held by the KJVO crowd, as God recorded the KJV down thru Moses, paul, John et all?
     
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