Does the Constitution Matter?

Now there the voice of reason... :thumbs:

 

So there is criteria to be a "true" American? Is it different from being an American? Which is better?

Don't forget, the constitution guarantee's American's freedom of speech which includes being able to speak against the constitution or burn the flag. Patriotism is a casualty of freedom.

 

Logically it is the title and the opening post. The opening post stated:

Some chose to attack the response of other posters and I took exception to their reaction, however, that did not change the subject of the opening post.

(Sometimes it is hard not to go off topic when tangents are introduced in the remarks made by posters.... I'm as guilty as anyone of doing this.... and I fight with my-self to be more disciplined.)
The topic, in this case, is the Constitutional standards for POTUS, and meeting those standards...... or iow proving the following of the law. A good place to start is reading the links since the OP is based upon information contained in the links. To answer a post without that information is premature.

 

No sir. He produced a "Certification of Live Birth", which is completely separate from a Birth certificate, and which can be obtained by immigrants whose child was not native born.

In order to prove the place of birth, an actual birth certificate, with the name of the delivering hospital, and signature of the doctor, would be needed.

 

This is not the subject of discussion:

The importance of the Constitution is the subject.
The judgenment of what is unamerican is not the subject of this thread.

However, that being said, and the above quote posted begs the response: What determines what is 'american' vs what is 'unamerican'? The exercise of rights and freedoms is not what determines 'american' vs 'unamerican' but the constitution defines Treason in Article III Section 3..

Article II of the Constitution of the United States pertains to the qualifications and the office of the President and his powers. Perhaps the oath which he takes... and which is taken in similar fashion after this form by every elected public servant holding office and by members of the armed forces and police states ""I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution fo the United States." Thus one who trashes those who would protect, defend, preserve or execute the CoUS, may have their loyaltly justifiably questioned by others as being 'unamerican'.

 

Do you not see that it's all related?

 

The U.S. Supreme Court is not about to throw this nation into its worst constituional crisis since 1861.

Why any sane person would want to see that happen, especially a Christian, is outside of my understanding.

The anti-Obama ought to just cry in their beer, lick their wounds, be gracious losers, and try to defeat him in 2012.

 

This is off topic. The topic is bashing Obama.

 

Ken, I understand your concern.... but I doubt that it is as well thought out as you suppose. Not everyone who wants proof of Obama's natural birth as a citizen is an enemy of Obama..... I certainly am not an enemy of Obama. And, I am sure, that there must be some who put their citizenship above the druthers of their politics, who would prefer to have this question settled although they voted for Obama. I do believe the law of the land is what preserves the peace and prosperity of our country and legitimizes its government.

Officials must be legitimate in their qualifications in order to hold office and carry out their duties. Lets say a particular office allows the duties of performing a marriage. However, an imposter holds that office, who would not have qualified had his background been known that he failed to qualify.... that his ordination was bogus, or he was not properly licensed, or that some other hidden information or disqualifying event prevented his proper attainment to office.... such as a felony conviction, or a citizenship requirement, or an illegal alien..... would the marriages still be legitimate? Or would marriages which occurred during his charade require the intervention and endorsement of others who were legitimate in power to endorse and thereby authenticate and endorse the legitmacy of marriages which occurred during the time while this imposter maintained his illegal position?

Now, the Presidency requires that the office has powers to a legitimate holder. But whether now or at a later time, the person holding the highest office of the land is determined to fail in qualifying, then every act, every veto, every signature, every agreement which occurred during his improper personation to office is then in question. .........Talking about a Constitution Crisis......

But what if a person obtains that high office illegitimately.... but is able to conceal the proof from the citizens. He takes his office and everyone, nationally and internationally uphold him in confidence. However, what if someone knows and has the proof that this man does not legally qualify for the office and that person is no friend either to him nor to the people of the United States. Could such a person or power hold him hostage to their influence against their threat of revelation? A person who is willing to obtain this power unlawfully might stop at nothing to protect his position..... even if it means going against the very good of the country which he leads in order to appease an extortionist.

If you believe this is not important to you, then you have voiced your opinion and I see nothing additional which you bring to the discussion of this OP except to attack others as being anti-Obama, or crackpots, or unChristian. None of these are pertaining to the importance of the CoUS which is the subject of this thread. Now, if you wish to elaborate your view of this as being a Constitutional Crisis then please do so as that is the subject.

 

You darn well know better!

This is not an attempt to bash Obama!

The purpose of this post is to determine the regard of the posters for the Constitution of the United States. Sadly.... it appears that very few do....... And if it is as some have suggested, a question of being a good Christian..... then, sadly, it appears 'good' Christians value their conveinence more than they value the law which provides the framework for the survival of our form of government and the exercise of our liberty in the peace and security which our government has provided.

 

Obama won, fair and square. Let's let it go.

Just MHO, of course...

 

Either side that constantly runs down the other regardless of which direction as far as I am concerned, has little or no regard for the Constitution. The Constitution is one document that meant us to be governed a certain way. The two parties have so far departed from that they are barely recognizable, and essentially the same.

 

Fine. I'll just stay out of this forum altogether, even to the point of not even reading in it. I've got more useful things to do anyway.

Adios.

 

No I don't, as a man with no certified official copy of my birth certificate yet know where I was born I don't see why we hold a person accountable for others record keeping (or lack there of). You seem to advocate a person being guilty unless he can prove himself innocent but I feel it is the accusers job to prove guilt. Someone needs to prove he was not born in the US instead of asking him to prove he was.

Now LE, that is what the constitution says, doesn't it matter?

 

I know how you feel Ken, it's like walking into an angry bee hive. You have hundreds attacking from every direction and you are asked to keep your composure. Then suddenly one bee explains loudly, "why you swing at me, I didn't sting you" as if you can keep track of all the bee's and who did or said what.

Be encouraged my Brother, I believe God is on our side for I feel divine help for this nation on the way. If my prayers are answered Obama will do good with the help of our God and will have such support by 2012 that a vote for his reelection will be purely procedural. On that day there will still be a multitude of conservatives against him with some still begging to see his birth certificate but the world will know 2008 was a divine intervention when God smiled on a land heading for self-destruction...

 

Who has been and will always be a Hillary Clinton supporter.... Anyone within reason can see why he keeps this "waste of court time" up.

In my opinion, even if Obama gave them a gold plated birth certificate then some would still say it's a fake, or he isn't qualified.

Don't you guys trust in the government that surrounds Bush. Hasn't Obama been vetted and is receiving daily briefings which he wouldn't be able to do if he wasn't able to be vetted for such....

This kind of waste of tax payers money ranks up there with the automotive executives flying in on private jets to ask for money to bail them out... :BangHead:

Edited to add: To answer your question: Does the Constitution Matter?

No, it's has mattered in a long time now... Just look to the past for that....

 

What LE said.

It's the Constitution that says the POTUS has to be a citizen; the same Constitution that you're trying to invoke about guilty until proven innocent.

You make a statement like "we shouldn't hold one person accountable for others' record-keeping (or lack thereof)"; please consider that the office of the POTUS is the highest office in the U.S., and is the public representative for each and every one of us to the rest of the world.

Should someone running for county sheriff have their qualifications thoroughly vetted? If so, how much more so the leader of the largest free country in the world?

I agree that this is a silly point; so why hasn't it been laid to rest by the president-elect? Or his supporters? Or the Democratic party?