Does the Effectual Calling not work on the RICH?

Last time I checked, Calvinists were saying that the rich young ruler was saved, because Jesus loved him[Mark 10:21], and, well, Jesus wouldn't have loved some non-elect person, now would He? Wouldn't fit with the "grand theory".

 

Perhaps God is a Democrat and hates the wealthy! :laugh:

 

I'm going to speculate here about why it's difficult to a right man to get into heaven.

My understanding is that, in that culture, prosperity and good health were considered signs of God's blessing, and even more than that, God's approval.

A rich man might conclude that God is pleased with him and is wealth is an indicator. With that attitude, he might conclude that he is saved, or at least has no need for a Savior because God has already given his approval.

I won't defend this idea, but I thought I throw it out there

 

All joking aside, you are absolutely correct. This is why Jesus's disciples were so amazed when Jesus said it would be more difficult for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to be saved. And so they asked, "who then can be saved?" It was the general belief that a rich person was favored by God over others. It was also thought that God was displeased with unfortunate people like the lame or blind, or those to whom accidents happened as the 18 that were killed when a wall collapsed on them in Luke 13.

Matt 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

 

Yes, this is correct. The fact that God is the ultimate cause of man's salvation does not negate that God uses means to accomplish it. A sinner born into wealth can be doubly blind to his need of salvation, but when the light of Christ shines in, he can be saved.

Is it your position that the rich cannot be saved?

 

Maybe not. I do know of a passage that refers to people being "twice dead". But I'll withdraw it.

Now back to my question,

 

So would you say that he was a worst sinner than other sinners? And whether someone gets save or not depends to what degree they are in sin? Are you implying that salvation is then easy for poor people, even though they are sinners?

Envy is a means of bringing them to Christ. But if they are hardened, of what use is means?

 

I notice v.26. Jesus is answering the question of the disciples... "who then can be saved?"

The answer is "with men this is impossible..." It is impossible for men to be saved on their own. Not just rich men, but "men" in general (i.e. mankind)

"....but with God all things are possible".

Salvation is only possible for men "with God" involved in the salvation process.

peace to youraying:

 

Touché!!

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First, we don't "all believe" the salvation is impossible without God, or that all things are possible with God, but that is besides the point.

Matt. 19:23 "And Jesus said to His disciples, 'Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven..."

Jesus doesn't say it is "harder" or "more difficult" for a rich man to enter into heaven than someone else. He says it is "hard". In fact, Jesus further explains in v.26 that salvation is "impossible" for all men. You can't get any harder than "impossible", can you?

At no time does Jesus say it is harder or more difficult for God to bring a rich man to salvation than anyone else. Never does He qualify God in such a way. All things are possible with God.

He is teaching His disciples a truth about the deceitfulness of wealth and their own attitudes toward wealth and wealthy people.

peace to youraying:

 

My understanding of uncondtional election and irresistible grace is that salvation is difficult, even impossible, for anyone that is self-satsified in their sin, whether rich or poor, and that God can and will save all of those He has chosen to save, whether rich or poor, by the power of a changed heart, through faith in Christ.

 

The "this" is "who can be saved". That is, salvation is impossible for all men by themselves. He doesn't qualify that one type of man is "more impossible" than another.

As I already said, to bring to His disciple's attention their own attitudes toward wealth and wealthy people.

This isn't part of the thread. Why don't you start another? I don't think we have enough threads attempting to discredit "calvinism".

peace to youraying: