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Featured Does The Lord Create Evil?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by tyndale1946, Aug 14, 2018.

  1. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    First, Rev 21:7-8 gives the comparison between those who will spend eternity in the presence of God, and those who will be thrown into a lake of fire. Pretty good list(not comprehensive) of those going into the lake of fire. No mention of ignorance for either group.

    Second: I know of no one who thinks God is a "monster" because of Christ going to the cross. In fact, it is the opposite. God demonstrated His love for us by sending Jesus to the cross to die for our sins.

    Lastly: I do not wish anyone to be separated from God. If God saves every person on the planet, I will sing His praises. If God only saves some, I will sing His praises, and I won't call Him a "monster" if I don't like what scripture says about God condemning those without faith in Jesus.
     
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  2. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying that God brought Paul into a saving relationship with Jesus because of ignorance and unbelief? Do you believe God was "motivated" to grant salvation because of unbelief?

    I've heard of "works salvation", but never "unbelief salvation".

    I believe you are misreading the text.
     
  3. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    "Do you believe God was "motivated" to grant salvation because of unbelief?"

    Absolutely. You save a person because they are sinners.

    A doctor is for sick people not the healthy.

    Mark 2:17

    On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

    Paul had ZERO FAITH, DID NO WORKS, in fact the opposite he was killing Christians. He didn't repent then God acted. He was never going to stop. The minute God intervenes it is mercy. God could have just snapped a finger and this guy could have dropped dead.


    1 timothy 1

    15It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all.16Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.




    Paul tells us the motivation. "READ" it for me."

    Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief

    Do what you have to do, find yourself a English major.


    A selfish person is going to have a tough time understanding God when his motivation doesn't fit some egotistical selfish objective.

    God is not a Megalomaniac. God isn't insecure he has to prove something to you. He doesn't need to hold a gun to a person's head for them to declare he is the best.


    God is GOOD, ACTUALLY GOOD. Not evil with a sugar coated title of GOOD.

    People presume things. One person hears "God can give and steal from who he wants" then they assume he will steal because they would. One person hears "God can have compassion on who he wants or not" then they assume he must hate folks because they do.

    God's virtue doesn't come from privileged, A crown did not make him King.
     
  4. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the conversation. Peace to you.
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God is not "motvated" to do anyhting, as whatever he weants to do will always be the right thing, and so he saves some of Us in order to glorify His name, and to bring to salvation a people who could no NOTHING to save themselves!
     
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  6. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Pick one.

    16“For God so wanted to glorify His name, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

    16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

    You got your verse, I got mine.
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus stated the He came to glorify the Father, correct?
     
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  8. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    John 12

    27“Now My soul has become troubled; and what shall I say, ‘Father, save Me from this hour’? But for this purpose I came to this hour. 28“Father, glorify Your name.” Then a voice came out of heaven: “I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.” 29So the crowd of people who stood by and heard it were saying that it had thundered; others were saying, “An angel has spoken to Him.” 30Jesus answered and said, “This voice has not come for My sake, but for your sakes.

    ^God is glorified in the rescue of sinners.
     
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  9. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    He created all things that are created.
    Col 1:16
     
  10. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    There's more to why He created all things.


    " for by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:" ( Colossians 1:16 )

    " For of him, and through him, and to him, [are] all things: to whom [be] glory for ever. Amen." ( Romans 11:36 )


    ...and the best for last, because it describes His children:


    " I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth;
    7 [even] every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him." ( Isaiah 43:6-7 )



    "Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:
    4 according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
    5 having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
    6 to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved." ( Ephesians 1:3-6 )



    May He bless you all richly.
     
    #70 Dave G, Aug 24, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2018
  11. jeremiah1five

    jeremiah1five Member

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    Anything and everything God creates falls short of His glory for there is only one God, there is none like Him, and He gives His glory to no one.
     
  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    God is infinite good. God created finite good things, and finite good things can be subject to being denied their good - hence evil.

    There can be no evil unless there is finite good. And that the finite good can be deprived of.

    Truth. Lies are counterfeit truths.

    Lies need truth in order to be.
    Evil needs good in order to be.

    Only the infinite goodness of God cannot be affected by any evil.

    And the knowledge of good and evil which inflicted a sinful nature upon the human race because of Adam's sin, was God's knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:22).
     
  13. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki Well-Known Member
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    Isaiah 45:6-7 is an incredible passage when in the lights of these facts, I will give you the facts first and then I will repost the verses.

    This passage was written about 70 years before Zoroastrianism's prophet "Zoroaster". Cyrus who is mentioned in vs 1, was a King that was born 100 years after our passage in question was written, and Cyrus was an adherent to Zoroastrianism. Zoroastrianism was characterized by a dualistic worldview with 2 Deities: Ahura Mazda lived where the sun dwelt, and he created light and peace, the other deity, Angra Mainyu, dwelt in the west and created darkness and evil.

    Isaiah 44:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there isnone beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
    7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

    So you see here in Isaiah we have a refutation of Zoroastrianism 70 years before it even existed!
     
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  14. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Good post. Sin is disobedience to God (or God's command/ law). Scripture does not place God in a position to sin.

    The law does not bind God, but instead is descriptive of God.
     
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  15. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    Jeremiah 5:26 King James Version (KJV)
    26 For among my people are found wicked men: they lay wait, as he that setteth snares; they set a trap, they catch men.

    Ezekiel 28:14-16 21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
    14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth, and I have set thee so; thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

    <b>15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.</b>

    16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned; therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God; and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
     
  16. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    God created evil is awesome because why fear something God has created but fear (revere) God who created all things, even those who was found iniquity within them. Who can save me from this body of death praise be to Jesus.
     
  17. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    God gave us His Law of righteousness so that we can see that we are sinners in need of saving.
     
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