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Featured Does the RCC have An Inferior View On the Bible?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Yeshua1, Jul 3, 2012.

  1. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    I can prove it, but I'm not sure I want to. Weariness has set in. I'm feeling that way now about a lot that's discussed here -- not sure how important it is, after all.

    Oh, I am very certain of the historical facts, as I have studied this kind of stuff in-depth for four decades, but I am feeling more and more the desire to simply follow the footsteps of Jesus.

    But just to correct one thing -- the source that inspired Wesley concerning his correct view of apostolic succession and monarchical bishops dating back to the apostles as being a fable was his reading of Lord Peter King's "An Enquiry into the Constitution, Discipline, Unity and Worship of the Primitive Church that flourished within the first Three Hundred Years after Christ".

    Also, there is no doubt about what I stated concerning the terms bishop/elder/presbyter/pastor as being synonymous in the NT.

    Peace to you.
     
    #81 Michael Wrenn, Jul 10, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2012
  2. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    I will just comment that the "Catholic Church" mentioned in 110 A.D. was meant as "universal church", not the RCC which came much later.
     
  3. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    I will say this: In spite of what I know to be true about the RCC, it should be understood why the office of the monarchical bishop developed -- the main reason was to try and maintain orthodox teaching against movements like Gnosticism. That was also why it was important to try to discern and determine a canon.

    Now the monarchical bishopric also developed for administrative purposes, but that's another story.

    As for the RCC murders and persecutions, it seems there is a constant need for the reminder that the Magisterial Reformers were also fond of using the sword to kill Dissenters in the name of Jesus.
     
    #83 Michael Wrenn, Jul 10, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2012
  4. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    What is perposterous is getting Protestants and Baptists mixed up. Neither group is as far gone at the RCC, but there are differences.

    The RCC is universal, visible
    The Protestant churches are universal, invisible
    Baptist churches are local, visible

    Three distinct entities. Granted, Protestants and Baptists are very close. How can you say the RCC is not a threat to the NT church when they claim to be the true church and at the same time worship saints and confess sins to a priest among many other practices?

    You are right, we are not to cause dissention within the church. I take that to mean a local church, under the will of the Lord. I do not take that to mean not to point out flaws with a circus that claims to be the one true church.
     
  5. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
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    First of all, I have made it quite clear that I no longer attend a Baptist church and attend the Catholic Church. This board makes it imposible to change the denomination you were affiliated with when you join the board. Secondly, I'm here because this is a debate board and this is the proper forum for debating other Christian faiths. I know you think the Catholic Church is the Great Whore and that your are rabidly anti-Catholic. I won't go away because you want me too. If the moderators wish me banned, they will do so, not you. You just tried to be clever in your statement that questioned my salvation so YOU are the one that needs to read the rules of this forum.
     
  6. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
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    Baptist are Protestants. If you can show the historical evidence that their were 'Baptistic churches' in the first centuries of Christianity, please provide the proof. None????? Really????
     
  7. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
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    Cutting and Pasting Catholic apologetic materials wouldn't be allowed on this board, but you can put this nonsense up??? Why don't you formulate your own ideas!
     
  8. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    You are not that dense. They are certainly closer to Protestants than Catholics, but Baptists did not come out of the RCC (thank the Lord), we have no hierarchy, and are autonomous.

    The best thing you could do is be truthful about your denomination.
     
  9. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    And it should not be allowed on this Board. This is a Baptist Board. The cut and paste says exactly what I said in earlier posts, but since you chose not to believe it, here it is in rewritten form.

    It seems very odd to me for a person who lists himself as a Baptist to be defending a religion based on a false interpretation of Scripture.
     
  10. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    I do not believe I questioned your salvation, in fact, in many of my posts, I stated that many Catholics are saved despite their church. Either you cannot read or you dropped out in the third grade.
     
  11. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

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    You cannot stop yourself can you? I know you cannot. I see I get you all stirred up when the truth is spoken. There is help for that. Obey God through Jesus.
    I understand you cannot stop yourself from name calling and attacking others. I will proceed regardless of what is going on in you and around you.
    If you think that God is just as pleased with those who do not obey Him, then read about God’s wrath, read about what God is going to do to those who keep sinning against Him.
    If there are any Christians in the Catholic Church, they must come out of her.
    Revelation 18:4 Then I heard another voice from heaven say: "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;
     
  12. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    I have very strong disagreements with the RCC on many things -- but I cannot say they are an apostate church. I can say that about many mainline denominations, such as the Presbyterian Church, USA; the Episcopal Church, and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America.

    At least the RCC is a pro-life church and upholds traditional morality.
     
  13. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

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    Hi Michael,

    What do you think makes a church an apostate church?

    The Catholics call their pope “Holy Father,” is that not blasphemous in your eyes? Holy Father is a name reserved for God, Jesus calls God "Holy Father."

    The Catholics make statues and pictures in which they bow to them, and stand near them to wait for healing, is that not against the command of God in your eyes?

    The Catholics call Mary the mother of Jesus the Co Redeemer and Mediatrix. God’s word says there is only one mediator between God and man, and that is Jesus Christ. Do you think the Catholics are doing right by calling Mary Mediatrix?

    Do you not think that the Catholic Church has abandoned the Word of God to follow their own way? If you say yes, then that is what makes one apostate.
     
  14. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
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    I live right next to an Episcopal Church. I would not walk across the street to hear a sermon preached in the local Episcopal Church. The pastor is a universalist who denies the diety of Christ and says 'resurrection is the spirit of Jesus living on in the lives of His followers.' The local UCC and American Baptist churches pastors seem to think this gal is 'the bomb', supporting that churches stand against the faithful ACNA churches that have withdrawn from TEC. Yet, many of the people on this board would rather cozy up to her than to listen to anything a Catholic might say.
     
  15. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    I believe that the RC has departed from the truth in many ways.

    But to address just one of your points: Yes, I believe it is wrong to call any man "Holy Father", but I think it is also wrong for Baptists and others to call their pastors "Reverend". I am ordained into the "historic episcopate", but I do not accept being called "Reverend", or any such artificial title, especially not anything that should be reserved unto God alone. On this, I agree with the Primitive Baptists, Churches of Christ, and Quakers.
     
  16. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    I would not listen to either. Do they transsubstantiate also?
     
  17. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

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    I do not believe a person should be called Reverend either.
     
  18. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    At Least you're consistent even though you've claim to no longer sin.
     
  19. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

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    When and where have I claimed I never sin?
    Do I sin all day every day? No.
    Have I given up sins? Of course, I have.
    Do I enjoy sin? No, I am completely changed in the way of sin.
    I offer my body as a living sacrifice as my spiritual act of worship that is what true worshipers are commanded to do.
     
  20. Catalyst

    Catalyst New Member

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    Right, because we all know, baptists aren't protestants... the RCC left the baptists. I get it. :| That's a rather dishonest statement. By definition both groups have gone further than the RCC. But only those that do the leg work, and not parrot what other lemmings have said before them will understand that.

    Not even sure what this means. The RCC is more local than baptists are, they are everywhere. They are more active in the world than the Baptists are as well.

    Because scripture says to confess to another man and he can forgive you. Because scripture says confession is a requirement for forgiveness after atonement. And because Ephesians 4 describes a Church to lead the people, not a people to lead the Church. That's RCC one point, PROTESTANTS 0 points for being scriptural.

    Why do you want people to point the finger at your circus.

    You've obviously never studied the way scripture defines the church. Maybe that would be a good thread, it seems there is a lot of lack of information on the topic. Historically, biblically, and idealogically, the RCC is closer to what is described than your local baptist church.

    And I'm not denigrating the Baptists, I grew up SBC. But, facts are facts.

    Oh, and I'm not RCC, I'd rather argue against them than for them. But, wrong is wrong. No one will ever learn otherwise if no one ever shows them there are other reads.

    BTW, your comment above, "I take that to mean local church...." Is a great example of eisegetically rewriting scripture to suit your needs. Rome doesn't do that, they have the opposite problem.

    There is no reason in scripture, just one in your emotions and hunches, to apply that to a local church not the corporte universal church. If it didn't apply to the universal church, JOHN wouldn't have addressed the gnostic threat, and Paul wouldn't have addressed the Circumcision group. AND you wouldn't be putting down the RCC. Which you do because they cause, in your eyes, a wrong picture of Xianity. The fact you want them to conform, contradicts your claim over the local vs universal church.

    Such ironies and contradictions as that, take a LOT away from your argument.
     
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