Featured Doesn't Hebrews 2:3 Show The Sign Gifts Had Already Ceased?

Heb. 2:4 is the primary verse people use to "prove" that Paul couldn't have written Hebrews. But this is a foolish argument, since Paul often casts himself with his listeners for effect. Here he is identifying with his listeners. He also does so when he says "We who are alive and remain." Ooops, guess Paul got that one wrong. Not! He's identifying with his listeners. "If we go on deliberately sinning" (Heb 10:26). Ooops! Paul you bad boy. No, silly! He's identifying, that's all.

 

It depends on the context in which it is used.
In 1Cor.12, the gifts of the Spirit are listed in verse 28. Today they have ceased.
In Genesis 1:2 we have the first mention of the Holy Spirit indicating he was always here. He is God, the giver of gifts. The One who gave himself was Jesus Christ who died on the cross, shedding his blood, that we might have "the gift of eternal life." Even then he was the Lamb that takes away the sin of the world. Through that sacrificial lamb the offer of eternal is given to them that believe.

His Spirit came in demonstration and power. But did He ever leave? God is omni-present. He is everywhere at all times. There are expressions in the Bible that are known as anthropormorphisms--figures of speech usually related to a man, that help us understand more what God is like. In Isaiah 41:10 it says that we are "upheld by the right hand of his righteousness." The problem is that God doesn't have a right hand. He is spirit (John 4:24). The Bible often uses such language to help us understand who God is. How did Moses see God face to face, if the truth is, that if any man should see God he should die, and the real fact is that God doesn't have a face. He is a spirit.

"The Spirit was poured out" Who had a pitcher? Who held it? Who did the pouring? What exactly does this phrase mean to you? God is spirit. He was always there. He is omnipresent. He is God.
Why is there a reference to "all flesh"? He did not come on "all flesh" and here is no indication that it simply means he was made available via the gospel to all flesh. That is not what it says. To come on all flesh means to come on all flesh, which did not happen, and will not until a future time.

For now, it simply means that those who believe on him are indwelt by him. In the future, all must believe in him. He will be the One reigning. They will have no choice.

Every believe is commanded to be filled with the Holy Spirit (Eph.5:18).
That is a command and a duty of the believer. It is not a gift. It comes through submission and obedience to His Word.

God is your Creator; not a gift. He is the giver of gifts. To lower him to the status of a gift; something you would give to your kid at Christmas, is to demean God.

 

No, no.

We can recognize most languages when we hear them today. We don't have to be able to speak Spanish to recognize it when someone is speaking it. The same with Russian, German, French, etc...

Let's don't pretend that what passes for "tongues" in these churches is even REMOTELY close to a real language.

You're not listening. Either God is still giving his Word or he is not. Tongues was God SPEAKING. It was revelation.

Now you have to decide whether you believe God is giving revelation outside of the Bible today or if he closed the revelation in the age of the Apostles.

 

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

Wow you really do read a lot in to a verse that states absolutely nothing about the susposed subject.
MB

 

Again, I do not think you would recognize a language that you have never heard. Deep down in some of the jungles..that some weird talking to listen too.

I don't pretent anything! I am not a member of a church where they speak out loud in tongues.

Show me in scripture where tongues have ceased!
Tongues is a supernatural utterance by the Holy Spirit in languages never learned by the speaker, not understood by the speaker, not necessarily always understood by the hearer. Speaking in tongues has nothing what soever to do with the mind or the intellect of man. It is a vocal miracle of the Holy Spirit.
Mark 16 says those that believe will speak with new tongues!
The gift of tongues is unique to this dispensation. We do not live under the Old Covenant anymore..it was written as an example for us now. We are to live according to the dispensation in which we are in now...and it has not changed since the day of Pentecost!

Speaking in tongues is speaking TO God!

 

I have news for you. I can always recognize a language. ALWAYS!! I may not always be able to recognize what that exact language is, but I can always recognize a genuine language. Please don't demean my intelligence on this board any longer.
We live in a mulicultural society. I come in contact with language spoken in the various language groups from India: Hindi, Punjabi, and all those similar to it, including Arabic, and those similar to it. My daughter speaks Spanish fluently. We are able to recognize any of the Germanic languages. English is a Germanic language. We have North American Indians that live nearby. They speak Cree. We are able to recognize Cree and all of its relatives. We can even recognize the languages of the southern states that come out of Georgia, Alabama, etc. . The Chinese community lives here. We can recognize a person speaking Chinese, Japanese and their relatives. We have Koreans that are members of our church.
Even if had never met any of these people I would be able to recognize a language for what it is--a language--something that has structure, vocabulary, syntax, and most of all is communicable between two or more people. That is it evokes a response where people laugh, answer back in the same type of syllables, vocabulary, and structure. It is something that can be learned.
Yes, I can recognize ANY language.

Proof that your brand of tongues is not scriptural.
Every where that tongues are mentioned it is mentioned as a language, a know language. It is not "an utterance." It is a language.

You have been shown many times. You don't accept the proof given. Why waste time showing you again and again and again.
They were a sign during the apostolic age and they have ceased. The apostles have died.

That is a bunch of hokey, and shows your ignorance of tongues. Tongues are known languages. The people were given the miraculous ability to speak in a foreign language, and they understood what they were saying. It is unfortunate that the KJV translators put the word "unknown" before the word "tongues." They made two mistakes. They should have translated the word tongues as languages, and left out the word "unknown." Look in your Bible. The word "unknown" is in italics. That means it is not in the Greek.

It is a miracle of languages. The spoke with other languages. To speak another language one has to know what they are speaking. Figure it out. They weren't random syllables.

It was a specific promise to the apostles. They could also pick up deadly snakes and drink poison. So do all that is written there, not just a part of it.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Drink the poison.

They were signs for the Apostolic Age before the NT was completed. It is completed. The signs are no longer needed.

No it is not. It was never used that way in the Bible. It was always used for the edification of the WHOLE church, never selfishly for one individual.

 

Not according to the Bible.

The passage you are referring to here is Paul making a point that you should NOT speak in tongues in church where the only one who can understand you is God.

But what you miss, brother, is that all of these gifts were revelatory. They existed to communicate the word of God.

Now either God is still giving revelation through toongues, words of knowledge, prophecy, etc.... or he has already GIVEN us the Word of God in the Bible.

If the gifts exist for some other purpose than to give a word from God- please tell us what that purpose is.

 

What revelation did he share through the ones in Acts 2?
What revelation did he share through the ones in Acts 10?
What revelation did he share through the ones in Acts 19?
Tongues, word of knowledge, word of wisdom..is still here and still building up the true body of Christ.
These manifestations can still exist today without taking away or adding to the Word of God! These work to build up the church!

 

One sign of the Apostles was they were able to heal the sick immediately.

One sign of the Apostles was they could take a cloth, and pray over it, and they who touched it could be healed.

One sign of the Apostles was they could lay hands on people and they would receive the Holy Spirit.

One sign of the Apostles were that they could raise the dead.


Are there any people in the world today able to do all of these things now?

 

The Apostles were still here when Acts was recorded, so these signs were still in the world. When the last Apostle died(Paul?), those signs ceased.

 

The question was what revelation did tongues show in those three scriptures.
You have still not shown the scripture that says that once the apostles died the church does not need these manifestations!

 

THe signs that would follow BELIEVERS are listed in Mark 16!

 

Luke 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt (5661) you.

Ezekiel 2:6 And thou, son of man, be not afraid of them, neither be afraid of their words, though briers and thorns be with thee, and thou dost dwell among scorpions: be not afraid of their words, nor be dismayed at their looks, though they be a rebellious house.

study!

 

It is not recorded. Neither does it have to be. It was the Word of God to those people who did not have a New Testament.

What is your point?

Not it is not and what imitates it is tearing DOWN the body of Christ.

No. They are REVELATORY gifts. You have yet to address this fact and this is the most essential point of this discussion.

When a person spoke in tongues and another interpreted they were not talking about Saturday's football game. They were communicating a word from God.

These gifts communicated the word of God in parts- here a little, there a little. A little word here a little word there.

This was terribly inferior to the New Testament canon.

That's why Paul said in I Corinthians 13 ABOUT TONGUES that that which is in part would be done away with when that which is complete has come. That which was complete was the canon given by Christ and his apostles by whom Hebrews 1 reminds God has spoken to this last age.

That's it. Christ and his apostles gave us the most complete and final word from God that this age would receive.

And it is IMMEASURABLY superior to what any other age had or even could have hoped for.

WE HAVE THE BIBLE!!

AWAY with these silly counterfeit words from god!!!!

Let us lean WHOLLY upon the inspired, infallible, inerrant Word of God and be DONE with lesser things!

 

Oh I do study. Try your own medicine.
Luke 10:19 was directed to his disciples, not to us.
Ezek.2:6 was God speaking to Ezekiel, not to us.
Neither one of those scriptures are applicable to us.
Why do you take Scripture out of its context?

 

When John heard the thunders in Revelations, he was going to record it, but God told him to seal the book. There are no new revelations today given to God. That's Marconi and Mormonism.

 

This is a matter of authority. On what basis does the Church do everything it does in ministry? Should it believe the Bible is the sole source of authority and that it must utilize wisdom to properly interpret it and apply it to the decisions the Church makes each week concerning worship, outreach, benevolence, etc…? Or should the church look to multiple sources for guidance such as words of knowledge, tongues, prophecy, etc… Here is a practical example of the importance of the issue. A church must make decision about whether or not to expand its property and facilities. The expansion could cost one million dollars. Should the church wait for a member of the church to be overcome with some feeling or experience that he claims is from God? When a member bursts out in ecstatic language and many of the members “feel in their spirit” that his experience is genuine, should that be the guiding principle behind the decision? No. The Bible should be the guide. The congregation should consider its Great Commission and whether or not expansion at this expansion is wise at this time. The principles of prudence in wisdom and narrative literature, the precepts and passions laid out throughout Scripture- these should guide the congregation- not ecstatic experiences falsely attributed to God giving extrabiblical revelation.
It is also a matter of credibility. Has the church been wrong about one of the most important theological matters in history throughout its history? Almost no one before the birth of the Pentecostal movement about 100 years ago believed that tongues, prophecy, etc… should be a regular part of the ministry of the church. So, for nearly nineteen centuries the church was doing it all wrong missing out on one of the most important things the church ought to have- revelatory gifts. It also has to do with credibility in the world in which the church lives. People are needlessly put off by the madness that is the typical worship service of charismatic type churches. It comes off as wild emotionalism unbridled by intellect or reason. Paul was concerned about this even in Corinth when the gifts still existed when they were doing it much better than charismatic churches do it today. They were actually exercising real gifts, not blurting out babbling nonsense and calling it a gift- yet Paul was still concerned about how it would appear to thinking people. I Corinthians 14:23, “If, therefore, the whole church comes together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of your minds?”

 

It is not recorded that tongues was REVELATORY. So why are you adding your own version of tongues and the purpose of tongues?

Just because there are false imitations does not prove the real is not here today!

So are you saying that He can not talk to us through the Holy Spirit anymore since the Bible is complete? Tongues and interpretation are usually a personal message to person, or could be for the church. It does not take away or add to the Bible.

Read futher down in 1 Cor. because it tells when that which is perfect comes..we will see face to face and know as we are known!

God still speaks to my spirit today on a personal level..he still guides and directs me...warns me..etc.

Do you know the difference is a "logos" word and a "rhema" word?

 

scriptures interpret scriptures! I did not take it out of context! I was showing you what they would understand about the serpents etc. Do a study!