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Featured Doesn't Hebrews 2:3 Show The Sign Gifts Had Already Ceased?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Yeshua1, Oct 26, 2012.

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  1. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    All the knowledge I need is in the word of God. The word "perfect" teleios, means complete. It refers to the completed word of God.
     
  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    :thumbsup::applause::thumbsup:
     
  3. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    You added "word of God" to complete! Even though it is complete our knowledge of it is not!
     
  4. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    First, "word of God," is the context of 1Cor.13:8-13.
    Second, you have yet to define "knowledge," so I have defined it for you. Until you define it, I can use my definition at liberty.
     
  5. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    Your liberty could hurt people if it is the wrong defintion!
    Not one time is the written "Word of God" mentioned in that chapter!
     
  6. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    1 Corinthians 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

    Please answer the question. What does "knowledge" refer to?
     
  7. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    What is the Greek word for written word? It is not knowledge.... the Bible is more than just knowledge.
     
  8. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    "Knowledge shall vanish away." What knowledge shall vanish away?
    Please answer the question.
     
  9. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    Man's knowledge will be placed with perfect knowledge! But as I said before..that is my opionion. Just like yours!
     
  10. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    1 Corinthians 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

    1 Corinthians 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

    1 Corinthians 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

    That which is perfect has come. I have the perfect Word of God. It is all that I need. All the knowledge concerning faith and doctrine is in this book we call the Bible. It is perfect "teleios" or "complete." That is what the word means. There is nothing else that is perfect or was going to attain perfection or completion from the standpoint that Paul wrote that ca. 55 A.D.

    Now that which is "in part" has been done away because we have the perfect Word of God. We don't need them any more: prophecy, tongues, and knowledge--revelatory knowledge--that specific knowledge that revealed to certain individuals what would be in the New Testament.
     
  11. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    Again that is your opinion and it does not fit the conclusion of chapter 13...we will see him face to face and we will know as we are known. Not to mention Chapter 1:7,8.." waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" He is the perfect one! WHen he comes for His bride...we will know as we are known and we will see him face to face!
     
  12. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    First, it is more than just an opinion.
    Second, it doesn't fit YOUR conclusion.
    Third, you don't want to stay within the confines of the context, even the context that Paul gave from 12:1, "I would not have you ignorant concerning spiritual gifts." You have gone far away from this context into the Second Coming which Paul is not addressing at all. Others have told you this as well, but you do not listen. The context is revelation, and revelatory gifts.
     
  13. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    Paul kept the gift and the coming of the Lord in context..and so should we!

    "So that ye come behind in no gift; WAITING FOR THE COMING OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST: who shall confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ"
     
  14. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    That verse is in chapter one of the entire book. Now we are up to chapter 13. Do you know how many topics have been covered in between those 13 chapters. That is not context. Take a course in hermeneutics!!
    The context in 13:8-13 has nothing to do with the second coming.
    In fact the greater context of chapters 12 to 14 has nothing to do with the second coming. Those are the only two contexts there are, for in that context he is speaking of spiritual gifts and specifically in 13:8-13 revelatory gifts.

    You can't even define the word "knowledge" let alone define the context.
     
  15. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    Face to face...know as we are known. That is all I am saying about that!
     
  16. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    That phrase has been explained to you more than once and by more than one person. I can think of at three people who have given you a good explanation of it. However that is not your real problem here.

    Your real problem is the definition of "knowledge." What is it?
    Until you come to that understanding you won't understand what this passage is about.
     
  17. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    Well I explained...just as you have, what I believe knowledge is there. I added perfect knowledge replaces our uncomplete knowledge. You added revelatory knowledge. Both added to understand it! I at least admitted that it was just my opinion! You boldly proclaim to know all truth!

    I really could turn that back on you and say, as you have....Until you come to uncerstand the definition of "knowledge" (my way) you won't understand what this passage is about. (that is basically what you just told me).

    The reason I believe it is perfect knowledge because we are going to know as we are known and will see face to face. Clearly...not in a dim mirror as we do now! When Jesus come we will be like Him!
     
  18. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    You are not making sense.

    1 Corinthians 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

    There is knowledge today.
    There will be knowledge in heaven and for all eternity.
    In this verse it says "knowledge shall vanish away."
    What knowledge shall vanish away?

    To say that perfect knowledge replaces incomplete knowledge doesn't make a case for anything. For "incomplete" knowledge will still be present.
    There is a knowledge that will completely pass away. What is it?
    I do understand. I believe the case may be: you don't want to understand it, or it is possible that pride will not allow you to admit the truth here. I am not sure what the problem is.
    That is an interpretation of a different verse to be discussed at a later time.
    1Cor.13:8 says that knowledge will vanish away.
    What knowledge?
    When will it vanish away or has it already vanished away?
    What is this knowledge this verse is speaking about?
     
  19. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    IMHO Paul has said the same elsewhere.

    For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; Eph 4:12,13.14

    But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. (Speaking of us being made perfect, in the fulness of Christ, instead of the childlike knowledge we now have.) When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child:

    DHK

    Will there be a moment in the future when we will be made perfect with perfect understanding? When will that be?

    Answer those two questions.

    When did Paul believe he would be perfect/complete? Phil 3:9-12

    How did Jesus himself become the author of eternal salvation; What took place and when? Hebrews 5:1-9
     
  20. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    :tonofbricks: :thumbs:
     
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