Drinking Alcohol Moderately

Alco-pologist bunk:

From an 1872 encyclopedia:

 

Apostles are filled the the Spirit
They speak in tongues
Some respond by mocking "They have had too much grape juice."???

Riiiiiight. Makes perfect sense.

Oh wait, I meant - Thats absurd!! Clearly the mockers were mocking them by saying they were drunk. The mockery was that they had had too much alcohol to drink. This fact is then reinforced by Peter's response: 15These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It's only nine in the morning!

 

And how exactly did that refute anything I said? I already granted that cider begins to mean juice in the early 1800s (as shown by the sometimes used qualification of "hard" cider).

EDIT: For a discussion of the meaning prior to the 1800s, do a Google search on the etymology of cider. And even if I am totally off in my etymology from 1800 on, this still doesn't change the fact that using "cider" to define "shekar" is a fallacy.

 

I don't understand that Peter guy. He would have shut them all up if he had said, "Guys, you're nuts. We're followers of Jesus. Obviously we don't drink alcoholic beverages!"

 

I totally agree. Those are all very bad reasons to do anything. Eating food included.

But that the world abuses something doesn't mean Christians should abstain. The world abuses food, money, sex and marriage yet instead of abstaining we as Christians instead seek to provide the proper example for using/doing these things. It is inconsistent to point out the world's abuse of alcohol as reason why we should abstain - Christians don't argue such with other things.

 

But that wasn't your argument at the time. Your argument was, basically, because some people abuse alcohol and hurt and kill people, then alcohol is to blame and, therefore, should be prohibited.

 

One of these things is not like the other:

 

They are not contradictory statements.

Notice the first statement "cider=apple juice"

The second statement includes the words, "begins to mean", indicating a gradual shift.

The two statements together indicate the beginning of a gradual shift (early 1800s) to the essential completion of that shift (early 1900s).

Our schools have really failed teaching elementary logic skills.

 

What Baptist Believer said.

Along with the added note of interest that part of the reason for the shift has to do with technology. Prior to the ability to keep juice cooled and thus unfermented for long periods of time, juice of any sort was limited to harvest time. So, even during the period of time when cider could mean either juice or fermented juice, during most of the year such a distinction was moot. If asked if you wanted a cider during the spring in 1850, there could be no doubt that a fermented drink was meant since that would have been the only choice available. Nowadays, since juice is readily available at all times of the year, and since unfermented apple juice has become by far the most common way to drink it, cider effectively equals apple juice. Use the word today and the vast majority of people will automatically equate it with an unfermented apple juice. Hence, today, cider = apple juice for all intents and purposes.

Additionally, I will again point out that whether or not I am wrong/right on this is ultimately beside the point. It is fallacious to try and define ancient words by their modern meanings.

And lastly, even if I am wrong about the details of how cider came to mean juice, every single authority on etymology seems to agree that the word originally referred to an alcoholic beverage. Only those who wish to fallaciously argue that shekar could also mean grape juice based on the meaning of cider deny this fact.

 

Absolutely.

It's a good, God-honoring choice for many people.

I agree completely.

 

I can handle it. (hic) I am drot nunk. (hic)

Moderation, (as most call it today) is throw around as if the Spirit gives man liberty to sin.

Alcohol is toxic to the organs of the body. That is why it is called an intoxicant.

The word moderation is only found one time in the Bible. Philippians 4:5. And it is not giving liberty to drink toxic chemicals. Eating and drinking are not even in the context of Philippians 4:5.

So many want to claim the Bible allows for drinking in moderation. I don't see it. From what I can see, every verse that speaks of an alcoholic wine, God tells us to steer away from it.

I'll choose to obey God on this one.

 

Did you know you can die from caffeine intoxication? H2O intoxication? Are they toxic to the organs in the body, or like alcohol...is it the excess that is toxic? Poison has no medical benefits, but research shows alcohol does.

 

Benefits such as cirrhosis of the liver? peptic ulcers? benefits such as chronic weight loss? bleeding disorders?

And the ultimate benefit... death.

I can see why so many want to drink it.

 

The Word of God assures me I am not wrong on this one.

 

A. ALCOHOL CAN LEAD TO POVERTY...
1. A warning against those who love wine - Pr 21:17
2. A warning against spending time with winebibbers and drunkards
- Pr 23:20-21
-- Alcohol has been the downfall of many businessmen

B. ALCOHOL CAN DESTROY LIVES...
1. It can lead to woe and sorrow, contentions and complaints,
wounds without cause and redness of eyes - Pr 23:29-30
2. It is seductive, and can destroy one just like the seductress
- Pr 23:31-32; 5:3-5; 6:24-26
3. It can alter your senses, leading you to say things you'll
later regret (e.g., "office parties") - Pr 23:33
4. It gives a false sense of security, exposing you to great
danger (e.g., "driving drunk") - Pr 23:34-35
-- Alcohol has destroyed many lives, both those who drink and
innocent ones who cross their paths

C. ALCOHOL IMPAIRS JUDGMENT...
1. Which is why kings and princes were to abstain - Pr 31:4-5
2. It is better reserved for the dying and devastated - Pr 31:6-7
-- Alcohol is not for those who would be wise

[Indeed, "Wine is a mocker, Strong drink is a brawler, And whoever is
led astray by it is not wise." (Pr 20:1). Because of such warnings,
and with the serious problems with alcohol in our society, let's review
what is said about...]

II. ALCOHOL IN THE LIVES OF CHRISTIANS

A. WHAT IS CONDEMNED...
1. Drunkenness
a. A work of darkness, not an element of the armor of light
- Ro 13:11-14
b. Conduct that not repented of will keep one out of the
kingdom of God - 1Co 6:9-10; Ga 5:19-21
c. Conduct suitable for church discipline - 1Co 5:11-13
2. Social drinking
a. We are to dedicate ourselves to doing the will of God, not
the lusts of men - 1Pe 4:1-2
b. Thus we are to abstain from drunkenness, revelries, drinking
parties - 1Pe 4:3
c. Though we should expect others to think ill of us for
abstaining - 1Pe 4:4
-- The popular and common use of alcohol has no place in the life
of the Christian

B. WHAT IS COMMANDED...
1. Concern for the weaknesses of others - Ro 14:14-18
a. Are we willing to destroy the one for whom Christ died?
b. Are we more interested in righteousness, peace, and joy in
the Holy Spirit?
2. Willingness to forego wine if a stumbling block to others - Ro
14:19-21
a. Do we know someone who struggles with alcohol abuse and
addiction?
b. Do we love them more than any presumed right we may have to
drink?
3. Evidently Timothy had chosen to forego wine for such reasons
- cf. 1Ti 5:23
a. Paul prescribed that Timothy drink wine for medicinal
purposes
b. Wine was often used to purify water, yet for some reason
Timothy had abstained
-- The Christian must prayerfully consider the role of influence
regarding alcohol
-- taken from Mark Copeland's semon, "Wisdom Regarding Alcohol"

God's Word tells me that we have been made kings and priests unto him. I also read in his Word that kings are forbidden to drink lest they forget the law and pervert the affliction of the wicked.

I will obey him and abstain.