Drinking Responsibly

Haruo. Here below an excerpt from an article named Is Wine Evil by Mitch Cervinka. I found it among my files.


Does "oinos" mean "Grape Juice"?
Those who advocate abstinence will often respond to these observations by saying that the Greek word oinos, translated wine in the New Testament, sometimes refers to unfermented grape juice. Yet, there is not one passage of Scripture from which such an assertion can be established! This is a flagrant example of reading personal opinion and prejudice into the Scriptures, rather than carefully and prayerfully reading the Scriptures to learn from God's Word.
The lexicons maintain that oinos refers to wine, not grape juice…
Strong's Concordance
(Nashville: Crusade Bible Publishers, Inc.)
3631oinoV oinos oy'-nos; a primary word (or perhaps of Hebrew origin [8196]); "wine" (lit. or fig.):-wine.

An Intermediate Greek-English Lexicon
Founded upon the Seventh Edition of
Liddell and Scott's Greek-English Lexicon
(London: Oxford University Press, 1975)
OINOS, 'o, Lat vinum, wine, Hom., etc.; par' oinw over one's wine, Lat. inter pocula, Soph. ; oinoV ek kriqwn barley-wine, a kind of beer, Hdt.

A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament
and Other Early Christian Literature
by William F. Arndt and F. Wilbur Gingrich
(Chicago: The University of Chicago Press, 1957)
oinoV, ou, ¢o (Hom. + ; inscr., pap., LXX, Philo; Jos., Ant. 3, 279 al.; Test. 12 Patr.) wine, normally the fermented juice of the grape (cf. Hastings, Dict of the Bible '99, 2, 33f); the word for 'must', or unfermented grape juice, is trux (Anacr. +; pap.).
The Liddell and Scott Intermediate Lexicon, referenced above, confirms the statement by Arndt and Gingrich that the word for unfermented grape juice is trux (trux)…
trux, 'h, gen. trugoV, (akin to trugh) new wine not yet fermented, wine with the lees in it, must, Lat. mustum, Hdt., Ar. II. the lees of wine, Lat. Faex, Hde., Ar.:-metaph. of an old man or woman, Ar.


Harald

 

Did Jesus drink wine? I believe so. But I don't see Him going down to the local Pub consuming a pitcher. Scripture clearly says that one should not drink to get drunk, and that we are not to drink hard liquer.

Me? I choose to not drink at all. Drinking alcohol has nothing to offer me. If I had one ounce of desire to drink I lost it in college when I met alcoholic after alcoholic. They would tell me how great drinking was, but they never looked like they were enjoying it as I would try to pry them off the toilet before they passed out. And that clown even cursed me as I tried to help him. So I let him go ahead and sleep with his face on the seat.

Are there people out there who drink responsibly? I am sure there are. I just don't desire to be one of them.

 

Yes. I know several people in my circle who never cross the line.

Actually you do. I have never even been close to being drunk. I limit my drinking to one drink. (I am over 250 pounds and 6'05", so it would take a fair amount of alcohol to cause an effect.)

I have never been drunk so I have obviously never crossed that line. I responsibly control my intake by limiting myself to one drink. It's called counting (counting to 1!) and making a commitment that you will not get intoxicated.

I sincerely doubt I will ever get drunk. I've never wanted to be drunk, I've made a commitment never to get drunk and I don't drink enough to get drunk.

Your assumption that everyone is irresponsible with alcohol is false.

Both of us are being equally responsible.

 

Non-Christians eat, drink, sleep, drive cars, have babies, have jobs, wear clothes, etc., etc., etc. So do you think Christians are to do none of these things since "everyone else" does them, too? That would certainly make us separate. </font>[/QUOTE]Everyone else commets adultry, steels, curses, believes in other gods, worships self, kills, decieves people tog et what they want. So do you think christians are to do the same just because everyone else does them too?

 

I would argue that within such a sub-culture, it may be very wise for the Christian to abstain or just keep their mouths shut about what they may do at home say, over a special dinner with their wife that might include some wine.

On the other hand, maybe actually being an example of responsible use of alcohol can be just as affrontive to drunkards, maybe even more so, than those who make taste not and touch not fence rules.

Being seperate is primarily about a life and worldview. I am deeply entrenched within the world system and its activities while being seperate from it in that way. The cliche has merit: in the world, not of it. </font>[/QUOTE]I live is a culture like scarlette, and no, it would not be seen as a chrsitian being responsable with alchol, it would said, saa there, they(christiasn) are no differetn them I am, so whats the fuss about, they do the samethings I do and go to church on Sunday.

 

Nope.

 

Well, let me be the first to say, NO JESUS DID NOT DRINK FERMENTED WINE! Any Christian that believes he did is just trying to make a excuse for them to drink without displeasing the Lord. One said, "I drink only one." I say, what's the use then? If you like the taste then drink O'douls or some other non-alcoholic drink. Obviously if you like the taste, you are listening/pleasing your flesh and not the Holy Spirit.

I believe that this is a common sense issue. Drinking has lead to nothing but, divorce, rape, killing, etc., etc., etc.

Sometimes you don't need a verse, sometimes you just have to use what God gave you in between your ears.

 

Would it shatter your faith if it was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that He did drink fermented wine?

 

Would it shatter your faith if it was proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that He did drink fermented wine? </font>[/QUOTE]Nope. Prove it!

 

I doubt if the governor at the wedding feast at Cana would have called grapejuice a "good wine" saved to the last when usually the poorer wine was served.

My personal belief is that the best alcohol is no alcohol. People do not usually say,,,,He only ever drinks just one beer (or whatever) but that he drinks beer....... better they know that I do not consume alcohol, period.

Cheers,

Jim

 

But then again, the Bible clearly prohibits those acts. It does not prohibit the drinking of wine or what is comparable. It prohibts being drunks.

[ April 21, 2003, 01:01 AM: Message edited by: Anthro ]

 

It would be impossible to empirically prove this, since we cannot see, touch, and handle what Jesus drank. Hence, we have to go on evidence to ascertain what is most probable.

Based upon the Scriptures and their Greek, and based upon the fact that it was IMPOSSIBLE TO PREVENT grape juice from fermenting (no refrigeration, canning, or shipped in ice blocks)--and believe me, it starts fermenting in a matter of days and is noticeably fermented after a week (found this out with pressed apples one time)--and based upon the fact the entire year's grape harvest WAS NOT drank all within the first few days, and based upon irrefutable archaeological evidence, extra-biblical history, etc., we have to conclude that wine was...it was wine. Grape juice was called new wine to differentiate the two.

[ April 21, 2003, 01:12 AM: Message edited by: Anthro ]

 

Okay. What would you consider acceptable proof?

If this proof is provided, will you change your opinion?

(I'm serious here.)

 

Proof is defined by emperical observation. As such, proof is impossible to obtain in this case, as I just stated. We have to thus go by what is most probable based upon the best available evidence.

On the other hand, Scriptural proof, i.e., transcendent proof based upon ultimate authority, is, in fact, proof, to those who accept it as such (I do)--and even if they don't accept it they will find out one day.

Folks, there is no need to twist the Scriptures to make them say wine was not wine. Accept it. Because it is true. Be real about it!

Just because early Christians used wine DOES NOT mean it is neccessary or in many contexts or in many personal lives, wise to use it today, a al, sound hermenuetics. Relax a bit with the extra-Biblical laws! You do not need them to make your case for not drinking!

[ April 21, 2003, 01:26 AM: Message edited by: Anthro ]

 

I kept my pressed apples at 55 degrees f and that did not stop it. They were in a walk-in cooler with the cooling element not working so good. After about a week. I will allow that my memory is faulty and that it may have been up to 3 weeks or so.

 

Non-drinker here...

Yet when that happens I tell my wife, "That's good cider!"

 

"Drinking Responsibly"

What if the question were is there responsible drinking?

My answer is no then to your question. What is responsible about drinking. There is nothing about it responsible.

Sherrie