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Earned Income Credit

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by Salty, Dec 9, 2010.

  1. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    >I'm still wondering on what basis billwald says "we smart people".

    The ones on the list who understand "facetious."

    I took the MENSA IQ test and they concluded I scored in the top 1%, 150 something IQ.
     
  2. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    and your point
     
  3. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    It answers a question in post #99, OK?
     
  4. targus

    targus New Member

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    All the more shame then that you decided to simply hide in the briarpatch your whole career.
     
  5. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    I spent 25 years working for my union. Baptist Board is my latest project.
     
  6. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    Most people work for their employer.

    The fact that you worked for your union speaks volumes.

    Mensa or not.
     
  7. targus

    targus New Member

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    Too bad your high IQ didn't give you the courage to work in a field that rewarded your efforts rather than relying on a group to extort your employer to guarantee your mediocre wages.
     
  8. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    I wondered if the citizens of your community knew where your priorities lay?
     
  9. SRBooe

    SRBooe New Member

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    IQ does not rate common sense or ethics.
     
  10. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    This is a mischaracterization of Unions. I've seen the wages in states that have effectively "busted" the unions and compared them with states that have an active union. States without union support have a large class of people barely making above minimum wage and very often without health insurance. When people are destitute here they really are. However, with unions I've found empolyers pay reasonable wages and provide health care coverage. And recently with the economy in shambles I've seen unions agree to cutting cost on their side to ensure the employer stays in business. Whether it be loosing employees or reduced wages.

    I honestly believe if the business culture of a company held to a system known as wefare capitalism or industrial Paternalism there would be no need of unions and people will give their lives to companies ensuring its longevity. George Johnson pioneered this idea and it worked well for him. However look at company cultures now. Most CEO's tenures are 5 years at most. And CEO's whether capable or not are actually shuffled around to different companies. They have enormous golden parachutes and often are seeking their own interest. To compensate CEO's they are often given shares so that if the company does well the CEO benefits however what usually happens is the CEO's bleed the company to create current term share growth and sell high. How it effects the company and its longevity is irrelevant to them. No longer is the mantra slow steady growth and maintain longevity. But a quick enourmouse growth in the current quarter sell, sell, sell, then get out! When midlevel managers and low level employees who's lives are dependent on this job are given the shaft! Sorry, this kind of greed is unforgivable (right up there with blaspheming the Holy Spirit) and therefore unions become necissary.

    Also note unions wish to maintain a high level of service to the employeers and thus require minimum standards to be established so that they are the best and the compitition will not run them out. So they often discipline their own if they get too shoddy.
     
  11. targus

    targus New Member

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    What planet are you living on?
     
  12. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    Terra firma brother. Obviously, you haven't been around many unions.
     
    #112 Thinkingstuff, Dec 22, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2010
  13. targus

    targus New Member

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    Actually, I have.

    I bought a couple of companies after the union broke them and pushed them out of business.

    I restarted the companies without union employees - my non-union employees made more than their unionized counterparts because compensation was based on production - not membership in a group.

    My brother in-laws have worked in union plants all of their careers. I have heard story after story of union workers damaging the assembly line in order to shut it down to get a couple of days off - of union workers spending hours and hours in the bathroom reading the newspaper in order to avoid working.

    A good friend of mine went from a non-union machine shop to a union machine shop. His fellow union workers threatened him for getting too much work done - it made them look bad because he was doing more than the contract minimum.

    My wife is a teacher and hates the union. Teacher unions are about teacher pay, benefits, and time off - not about teaching.

    The purpose of a union is to get members more as a group then they could get on their own based on their own abilities.
     
  14. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    I am sure those things happen as its in human nature however its not always the case and I've actually seen unions work to benefit the employer as well. The purpose of the union is to ensure that employees are treated fairly rather than as cannon fodder like so many companies wish to do. Like I said if companies had held their employees in higher regard like unders welfare capitalism there would be no need of unions.
     
  15. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    >I restarted the companies without union employees - my non-union employees made more than their unionized counterparts because compensation was based on production - not membership in a group.

    OK, how many people did you employ in any one shop? Any over 100?

    Agree that small independent shops can do this. When the US was a nation of small independent shops and small independent farms 80% of the people lived hand to mouth and had no job security or any guarantee of safe working conditions.

    Someone explain how employees at Ford, Chrysler, or GM would individually negotiate for salary and working conditions. Please explain how GM would save money by individually negotiating with 50,000 people? Or would GM set wages by fiat and being the largest employer in town have people fighting their way down the food chain?

    This "American Dream" of owing a house screws the working people. How? Because you own a house in a one company town and there is no minimum wage or union contract you are screwed if the company decides to cut wages by 20%. What is the worker to do? Give his house back to the bank and move to a new state? Half the people in the town can't sell their houses all at once.
     
  16. targus

    targus New Member

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    Performance reviews
     
  17. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    Sure.

    Just as soon as you can explain how it increases production for unions to protect non-productive and lazy people, while at the same time driving companies to either closure or bankruptcy with their excessive demands.

    Unions, as they operate today in America, are a scourge on the face of the earth and should be totally eliminated.
     
  18. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    I suppose they could see how a company of over 1 million people do it. Say the US Army - individual contract - anywhere from 2 -6 years. Has worked very well - not perfect - but very well

    Bottom line. there was a need for unions, esp around the turn of the century, however, as the unions got more and more - the pendulum went the other way. Both sides have been a fault at one time or another - too bad they couldn't be honest with each other.
     
  19. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    Perfect burgeoisie comment! I want no excuse to take care of employees well! Its about what I can get for myself while stepping on everyone I can until I meet my goal! As long as employers value employees less than other capital assets then there will be a need for unions. Until business can treat there employees respectfully, pay a fair wage based on earnings. As long as top executive officers don't make in excess of 75% of the lowest payed employee you will need some sort of unbudsman to negotiate what is fair. I'm certain every one wants to get back to the days of slavery when it comes to employment.
     
  20. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

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    Bank of America has 284,000 employees and manages to individually negotiate.
     
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