effectual calling

Bro. Rip,

You sure do put a lot into what a "two legged preacher" has to say. There is a "gospel message", and then there is THE Gospel(upper case "G"). Here's proof:

Rom. 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

God does not need a preacher for Him to show someone/anyone their lost condition. When God showed me lost, ruined, undone, doomed for a devil's hell, if I didn't repent of my sins, I was on a school bus heading home. There was no preacher around, no one talking about the Word, no one singing a hymn, etc. I was sitting in my seat minding my own "p's" and "q's", when He showed me what I really was. Right there, God gave me THE Gospel, but I didn't give it all over to him until I was 36.....this happened when I was around 15. I imagine He can do the same for someone who hasn't heard the "gospel message".

Now, mind you, I had been to church several times a few years before that, I can can remember the "SOUND" that the preachers made when they preached, but I can't remember what they said. Here is a verse I really love!!

Psa. 89:15 Blessed is the people that know the joyful sound: they shall walk, O LORD, in the light of thy countenance.

So, anyone can hear the "gospel message" and die lost. Hearing this message isn't a guarantee of salvation. Only those who choose to obey His voice will be saved!!

Psa. 127:1 Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.

i am I AM's!!

Willis

 

I never heard the expression of a "two legged preacher"before. What are you talking about?

There is only one gospel --not two varieties. And those verses have nothing to do with my post #19.

What about:"How shall they hear without a preacher?" Is that in your Bible?

Great verse! But it has nothing to do with my former post. It certainly doesn't refute what I said.

Many have died never having the privilege of sitting under the sound of the gospel --obeying or not.

Again --good passage. But it is not relevant to the subject under discussion.

 

You keep asking me to provide scripture to prove ideas I never espoused. Not sure how to say that. Therefore your questions are a strawman. I have no need to provide scripture to support ideas I neither believe or espoused.

So are we now clear? I do not believe nor have I said or implied in any form the ideas you have asked me to provide scripture for. I do hope you can now see both your strawman and that I have no need to answer questions I do not espouse.


Does anyone else understand what I am saying here?

 

Yes I deny it and it has nothing to do with the questions you keep asking. Nothing at all. Such as :

I never suggested anything like any of these questions. And my assertion that your personal view of grace is in error does not lead to these questions. Not sure how you got to them. And by the way my ultimate argument is that your personal doctrine stands and falls by mere implication by even your own words is where you go wrong. You just can't back it up without imposing on others ideas and questions never espoused by them. So rather than defend your personal doctrine you redirect with irrelevant questions that do not address anything I have said. Again...thus your strawman.

 

Rip....since he never responded Im guessing its a WVA Colloquialism, like Y'all.

 

I understand clearly

If my mispelling confused I apologize.

Is this incorrect?

Again no they don't. They have nothing to do what I said.

That is not what happen I suggest you go back and reread it.

They have nothing to do with my statement.

I have none. But if you believe I have misrepresented the Calvinist position then address that instead of running around the the bush asking questions unrelated to what I said.

There error is that God does not offer grace to some people but only to the Calvinist view of the elect. Those who are not elect will never receive an offer of grace according to the Calvinist view.

 

My Brother Icono is what I consider a very gracious Calvinist who wishes for everyone he comes in contact with to know Christ. Why else would he come on here & attempt to explain the Christian Faith through what he considers to be the correct theology, after driving a truck for straight thru 800 Miles. If you want to reject his help because you reject his theological interpretations, just tell him flat. Then the poor man can get to some real important stuff like study & sleep instead of spinning his wheels with you.

 

I disagree

No its not there

 

I would suggest that you mind your own business. He, being a grown man, can speak for himself. And his very words in this thread have lacked the graciousness you claim. Your agreement with his personal doctrine is clouding your judgment.

 

Sorry about the "tardiness" of this response. What I mean by this expression is just a "man", and nothing else. Sure, a man can be "legless", and still preach, but this is just an old saying, and nothing else to look into.

I never once implied there were two gospels, whatsoever. You read into something that wasn't there to begin with. Here's what I meant concerning my previous post directed towards you. A man can have perfect hearing, and be deaf as a door, correct? A man can be deaf, and have perfect hearing, correct? What do I mean by these two questions? My wife has no hearing problems whatsoever, but whenever someone talks about the bible, she seems so uninterested, its pitiful(please pray for her!!). This is like the "gospel message" she would hear, and God not drawing her....she's deaf in hearing in this instance. Now, when God begins drawing her, and she gets worried about the condition her soul is in, then God shows her THE Gospel. Let's take a closer look at these two verses here:

Rom. 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

When God comes to a sinner, and shows them their lost state, that is THE Gospel presented to them. When God showed me lost and that I needed to serve Him, there was no preaching, singing, shouting praises unto Him, etc. I was sitting on a school bus heading home. Now, whenever the conviction takes hold on one's life, then, and only then, can the hear the "gospel message". Do you see what I am getting at? Unless God removes the veil, we can not understand His Word.

I love that verse, but Romans 10:9-17 is the most abused passage in the bible. Here is why I say that. I will break this down. If you hold to a literal interpretation, the "deaf/mute" has no hope of salvation whatsoever!!

Rom. 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. How can a "deaf/mute", or even a "mute" person do this confession with their mouth if they can not give a "verbal confession"????

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Aaaah!! But a "deaf/mute" can believe from the heart!!

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. Again, a "deaf/mute" can do this!!

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.Again, a "deaf/mute" can do this!! They can call out to Him from the depths of their heart!!

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Again, a "deaf/mute" can do this!!

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? That which I bolded and underlined is something they can do. They can "hear" God when He speaks to them. But the last sentence is something impossible for them to do, is hear from a preacher.

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. So, I hold to the "spiritual" interpretation of this passage. It's with the heart man believes unto righteousness. It first goes to the heart, and then from the mouth. Whenever someone is saved, you can tell it, even without them saying a word. There is a feeling, or better, a witness of our spirits bearing witness with each other!!

Psa. 89:15 Blessed is the people that know the joyful sound: they shall walk, O LORD, in the light of thy countenance.

The reason why I used this verse is because whenever God speaks to someone, saint OR sinner, they know His voice. And those who OBEY will He gather when Jesus comes in the cloud.

Psa. 127:1 Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.

I used this verse to prove that anything we do, it takes Him to bless it. We can not even breathe unless He blesses us to do so. We can not come to Him unless He first draws us. We can not hear THE Gospel, unless He first shows us what we are!! Only when He removes the veil from our face, are we able to see, and to hear Him!!

i am I AM's!!

Willis

 

a gospel message and then The Gospel

You said that there is a gospel message and then there is The Gospel. That sure sounds like to gospels to me. If you'd like to back up and say you have changed your mind about this that would be good.

I don't know about that --there are plenty of others.

The Lord made the mute. His elect among the mute will "hear" the gospel. Don't take "hear" too literally.

The rest of your post,as I said in my pervious one -- has nothing to do with what I raised in my post numbered 19. I wish you would address the issues I brought up.

 

I would suggest you take a long walk off a short pier. And if you think Calvinism clouds my judgment, Im assuming you will start questioning my salvation next.....bring it on!