Eight Years of Iraq War Cost Less Than Stimulus Act

I added the bold.

Are you saying that what Christ told his apostles have no meaning, no guidance for us? I think not.

Jesus did not call us to be political. He called us to a much more dangerous life, that of bringing light of Christ to the world.

He did not call us to a safe life. He called us to a more dangerous life of following him into the world and depending on him, not on Caesar.

He did not call us to conform to the world, but to a more dangerous life of trying to transform the world.

He did not call us to build and live in Christian ghettos but to a more dangerous life of going to the world, to those who hate us and to bring his light to them.

Christ commanded us to follow him, not to depend on governments. He called us to a dangerous life, a radical life in him.

 

I bolded for emphasis.

It is ironic that you would choose these words given your support of Obama and the latest expansions of the government.

 

A person has to select from the list of people running for an office. A choice between a person who desires peace and helping people, for me, is an easy one over a person who leans toward war and destruction.

However, I see you did not disagree with my comments on a Christian life.

 

Your support for Obama goes beyond the wars.

You have expressed your support for expanding dependency on the government by more and more people.

That you do not see this is the source of the irony in your previous statement.

 

What I advocate is to teach people how to fish and not just give them fish. This will lessen their dependency. Also, I have said that government help would not be needed if Christian churches were doing what Christ commanded, taking care of those in need. If this were done there would be no need for government programs. There are some who are sick, handicapped and the aged who will always need help. Again, if churches do not help them it is then up to the government to try to help. Churches could carry out such programs at less cost than the government, at least I believe they could as they would have have as large an overhead. Agree?

 

Crabby...I see you've ignored my earlier comments, so here's a question for you.

Will the Iraqi region ultimately be more or less peaceful with Saddam out of power?

 

The war in Iraq and Afganhistan, necessary? Hardly so.... except to the globalist in our government and administrations who needed it for a dual purpose: 1) To bring ruin and control to those countries which were not fully cooperative with their NWO goals of economy, energy, and control. and 2) It prolonged the distraction created by the 9-11 incident and the emotional involvement of the American people, maintaining our focus on war and promotion of fear kept us from weighing the passages of those laws and other internal interest which were already surfacing concerning the risky home loan processes and investment risks being taken by the big boys on Wall Street for corporate and personal gain preparing the economy for the economic collapse while they took their gains and the Congress passed legislation which would empower the government with more power to use against the people..... when the time was ripe.

Don't believe me? That's okay! I wouldn't have believe it either, 10 years ago, when I was busy working my job, relieved that the y2k issues were no problem, and wondering if I could get another year or two out of an old clunker that was 14 years old and had over 200,000 miles on it, and hoping Bush would beat Gore. The election was controversial and no doubt the decision delayed the orientation of the new president into the official duties of his office.... not to speak of the questionable stories about deliberate vandalism and likely less than transparent information being traded off from old administration to new. September 9, 2010 was a quiet Sunday and everyone was at peace so it seemed. September 10th, news broke about an investigation into massive amounts of funds lost to the military. September 11, 2001, two planes flew into the towers ........ and we're told a third tore a hole into the Pentagon. That evening WTC bldg 7 came down after a BBC live report that it did. Small fires, reportedly caused by shrapnel of burning parts from the WTC towers.... were burning on various levels and firemen scavenging the building to identify and put our fires.... also trained to recognize demolition.... were withdrawn before they could enter all floors or identify all fires. War is a successful way to raise the debt of a nation, give temporary employment to an energetic corps of youth eager for sacrifice for a cause, and employ the thoughts and focus of a people who want to think the best and trust the leadership of their country away from watching what is going on within which will have long term effects perhaps more devastating than any imagined by the temporary crisis which rose these to immediacy and passage.

It was fitting that the economic crash did not come til the end of Bush's term. Personally, I'm inclined to believe that President Bush was a conscientious 'resistor' to the speed of the changes needed by the NWO. What isn't thought of is that the Democrats voted for legislation right along with Republicans... after they took control of the Congress in 2006. The Congress controls the peoples money and budget....... not the President. The president can ask for legislation and appropriations but its the Congress which controls the public purse.

So, in spring of 2002, I found myself out of work, just weeks before my 54th birthday and into my 22nd year at that job: No retirement to draw... only unemployment benefits (the only time in my life) and some savings in a voluntary self retirement program started with my former employer when they offered it about 10 years earlier. I'd only recently had obtained the wealthy level of earning about $10/hour... when I was cut loose---- a call which I believe was economically motivated by my employer based upon age, wages, sick leave hours accumulated and due... in the event of illness but not payable if discharged (better than 600 hours, because I did not abuse sick leave). In fall of 2004, I separated from my last job.... and canabalized my retirement savings to live on and pay for my COBRA and cancer treatment.... and lived on it since, until it was exhausted on the eve of my becoming eligible for social security.

Thanks to this time, I've had the opportunity to read and study the constitution, more of American History than any taught in hs or college.... and study the background of issues which are affecting us today. My studies are largely undocumented.... but I can say this.... the intensity it takes to ferret out the information with openess to consider more than one side ....... and come to certain conclusions that, for the most part, we've been steered, snowed, deceived, used and abused and largely manipulated.... mostly by and through MSM..... and our children through school and entertainment..... and most Americans have no idea why they believe what they believe about recent events.... and most of it is planned and planted for their consumption to accept the transistion of order coming to their world and training them to conform through a gradual process to accept as ideals and ideas and as values for themselves..... things they would not have agreed to 15-20 years before.

These bailouts and stimulus bills.... They are designed to separate the wealth and property from the people of our country to benefit the profit line and the financial interest of those who control the money and who need it the least. The bankers are bailed out for making bad loans for which they were responsible for approving. They get bailed out, refuse to renegotiat loans and choose to foreclose and put people out of their homes.... and then destroy the housing they can't resale!. The government funds a stimulus package in which the jobs which are created by temporary funding place an obligation on some funds strapped local governments to create and sustain structures or employment so helped... or favors contracts already planned and in place.... or creates govenment employment and expands agencies with no other product or business but either to promote more services or increase more regulations.

What we need in our country is the sturdiness of the American people to regain their faith in God and His provision.... their trust in Him and in His power to enable them in their responsibility.... and less trust and appeal to government for solutions to every problem. Instead of giving our 'problems' to government.... its time we take them back and work on them where and when they arise. Instead of investing in international interest.... its time we put our investment where our heart is... in the church, in charity, to our neighbors which are hurting through no cause of their own, in our community, in OUR industry and development of our private resources and in our products.... and let these internationalist feed on each other! We need a vision to see our investment of our labors and our resources begin right here, right now, and right at home. We have never been able to help others from other than a position of strength: It is high time we regroup and figure out ways to starve the beast by not playing their game.... and rebuild our strength. It is also time we stop viewing ourselves by what we think we lack.... and count our blessings, ..... and give God the credit that He can take what few talents we may think we have.... and if offered first to him.... He will enable a multiplication and a strengthning of that truly yielded to Him. It is a spiritual battle on a material plane that we are engaged in. It is a battle on a secular front...... but a battle where the Christian is challenged to keep his perspective..... and strive to seek God's direction through the fog of information and misinformation.


The object of all of this.... wars, bailouts, stimulus, health care, taxes, regulations, etc., is to break the American economy and to weaken us into submission. The only winning move is....... to stop playing their game.

 

Like most conspiracy theorists, you are long on claims and short of facts - or as you say "My studies are largely undocumented.... "

But what does "stop playing their game" mean? What are we supposed to stop?

 

You really need to work on your reading comprehension. Are you a disciple of Christ? Then Christ was speaking to you, and speaking to you on a personal basis, giving you personal instruction on how to conduct yourself. I did not say Christ was only speaking to His apostles. I said He was speaking to His disciples, and I said that because that is what the bible recorded.

I would like a scripture that tells me I am to try to transform the world. I can't remember ever reading Christ give me such a command. I do recall Him telling me to be in the world but not of the world. I do remember Him telling me to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and unto God that which is God's. I don't remember Christ telling me to bring His light to the world. I do remember Him telling me to let my light shine, that others may see it and glorify my Father in heaven.

 

Matthew
19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

Is this not a call to transform the world? To make all nations disciples would surely transform the world.

We are told we are not to hide our light under a basket. This surely is a command to take his light into the world? You cannot let others see your light without going into the world.

By the way, your attempted insult decreases your credibility and does not enhance discussion.

 

It says nothing about transforming the world. It says to spread the story of Jesus throughout the world.

While this might transform the world, it is a by product of getting the Gospel out, not the purpose. The problem is that this all becomes a people centered issue. We have to make things better for the people of this world. But the Gospel is God centered. The point of the Gospel is not making people better earth dwellers but citizens of a heavenly kingdom.

 

The call in Scripture is to go out and make disciples of all nations - not make all nations disciples.

Disciples are individuals - not nations.

And while making all people disciples would transform the world - we are called to make disciples - not transform the world.

Transforming the world would be a nice side effect - but it is not the mission.

 

The building had fires on every floor. It was structurally unsound and close to falling. There was no water pressure for firemen to attempt putting out fires anyway. Surely you didn't expect firemen to wander around WTC 7 looking for clues?

"The major concern at that time was number Seven, building number Seven, which had taken a big hit from the north tower. When it fell, it ripped steel out from between the third and sixth floors across the facade on Vesey Street. We were concerned that the fires on several floors and the missing steel would result in the building collapsing." –FDNY Chief Frank Fellini

Here is WTC7 before it fell. Not at all safe for firefighters to enter.

 

>What I advocate is to teach people how to fish and not just give them fish.

The recent choice seems to be between teaching fishing and giving machine guns. Which has a better economic outlook for the US working class and for our owners?

Fishing is no longer a a good example. Bottom trawls and mile long nets have wiped the oceans clean.

 

The command to preach the gospel is not a command to transform the world.

The gospel is about telling God's people what Jesus Christ did for them. It is not about changing the wicked world in which we live. The world will always hate Jesus Christ, the gospel, and christians. Why? Because we are not of the world, but were chosen out of the world, and now follow the one the world hates the most, Jesus Christ. The point of the gospel is to bring life and immortality to light for those who belong to Jesus Christ.

Yes, I am to let my light shine. How do I do that? He tells me. It is by living godly in this present evil world. I do that out of a heart to serve and please God. Me letting my light shine will not change the wicked. Jesus said everyone that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. Letting my light shine will only have a positive effect on he that doeth truth, and he will glorify the Father in heaven, who changed my heart and gave me a desire to live godly.

 

>I think it is wrong analogy. You can't compare the waste of tax payer money in the stimulus boondoggle with the money and human cost of the Iraq war.

Actually value/cost in money is the ONLY way one can compare dissimilar items. It is fiction to say "one can't put a price on a human life;" we do it all the time.

Drunk drivers kill more US citizens in a month than were killed by the Iraq
invasion/occupation. Alcohol profits must be more valuable than the people killed by drunk drivers. Anyway, Drunk Driving is our national sport - even in the mostly Baptist Bible Bely.


The cost in US deaths of the Iraq invasion/occupation and the 911 incident are amazingly close. Of course 1 US death is more costly than 100 Iraq deaths.

 

Typical. When you make a good point, CTB disappears (or at least simply ignores your point).

 

So, according to you, all law enforcement officers and soldiers must be living in direct, open rebellion to God...right?

*crickets*

 

Sorry, I didn't see your question in your earlier post.

I do not believe Iraq will be more peaceful with Saddam out of power. It has not been peaceful so far. Also, and I pray that I am wrong, when we[ we being the US] are really gone I, believe there will be a huge bloodbath in Iraq as opposing forces try to take control of the country. The opposing Sunnis, Shea , the Kurds will play their part in this violence. Iran, Syria and other Mid-Eastern countries and interest groups will also play a role in this upcoming disaster.

Also, when talking about Saddam we must remember he was, to a large degree, a creature of our making. Without US help in he would not have survived the Iran-Iraq war.

Don't believe I ever said that and I must say it is an extreme stretch to think I did. There is quite a difference between civil law enforcement and military war.

Show me where Jesus said or indicated that war is acceptable. Remember he did not engage in political activities, nor did he encourage his followers to do so.

Why didn't Christ advocate warfare against Rome?
Why didn't he advocate terror tactics against Roman soldiers stationed in Israel?
Where did he say to 'hate your enemy'?

 

Jesus didn't instruct society on how to act. He instructed individual disciples on how to act. People love to make Jesus out to be some peace loving hippie. He was not. One of the greatest images of Christ in the bible is from Revelation 19 where we see a great warrior King sitting atop a horse, wearing a vesture dipped in blood, having a sharp two-edged sword proceeding from His mouth, and destroying His enemies.

Jesus, as a man, showed us how to live. He never told me to enter the army or refuse to enter the army. He never told me to protest against war, or to support war. He told me to be humble, to love the Lord my God with all my heart, and to live godly. People are always trying to use Jesus as an ally for their political ideology and it is dishonest, not to mention dishonorable to the Son of God.