Eisegesis question

lastday. Thank you for that information however I would ask you to go here http://www.gerald285.com/view/?pageID=312559 and read and then here for the second part http://www.gerald285.com/view/?pageID=313553 because this article sort of makes those dates incorrect. I would be interested in your thoughts on this based on the information in the article.

 

Lastday

freeatlast,

Author of your article states: "Jesus arose on Saturday"!
He rejects "tradition" as if it has no support whatsoever!!
Out of hand, he discards the evidence for Palm Sunday!!!

He further states that the Passover Lamb was killed on Nisan 13
instead
of Nisan 14 as required by Lev.23:5. He writes:

According to the great Hebrew scholar, Alfred Edersheim, "The Passover was sacrificed between the evenings of the
14th and 15th of Nisan...before the
close of the 14th and beginning of the 15th. The Preparation, in John 19:14,
means the preparation-day for the Sabbath and the Passover, as in 18:39,
the whole Paschal week". Edersheim placed the crucifixion on Friday.

The author fails to recognize that a Jewish idiom, in reckoning the length of
a day, accepted any part of the day as equal to a "whole day and night". Case in point,
Jesus took the disciples to the Mt. of Transfiguration "after six days" in one
account; but "about eight days later" in another account.
Mel

 

The accounts you offered about the Transfiguration for explaination of the time frame are not different ways of explaining a day. One (Matt account) is the literal time frame where Matt. is most likely counting from the promose in 16:28 which Mark agrees with. Luke says about 8 days and he is most likely counting the day of Peters confession to the end of Christ's transfiguration including the entire period making about 8 days.

Also let me say that tradition is fine if it does not contradict evidence and truth. That aside let me ask you something. How do we get three days and three nights in the grave if the Lord died on Friday? How do we account for that even if using Jewish accounting? Even the Jew did not claim that the same time frame of any day was day and night at the same time. Give me some possible starting and stopping times for each day starting with Friday dead in the grave, ending with the resurrection sometime on the first day of the week (Sunday) that could bring about three days and three nights in any portion if you would. BY the way I am not saying that you are wrong. I would just like to see the math since I have never been able to come up with such calculation no matter what I do to manipulate the numbers. Thank you.

 

Lastday

freeatlast,

I don't care to argue this subject since it is much more important to me that
Jewish men like Alfred Edersheim agree with the findings of John Newton and
by NASA and the USNObservatory that Christ died on Friday, April 3, AD 33.
Newton determined this date about 400 years ago apart form any computer
technology we have today!

Furthermore, I found that on a 360-day continuous calendar, the 14th of Nisan fell once every 7 years on Friday if Christ rode into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday. Palm Sunday fell on Nisan 9 and therefore Passover fell on Nisan 14 once every 7 years from BC 444 to AD 33...so that Christ had to die on a Friday if He rode into Jerusalem on a Sunday!!

That is a tradition that I personally do not question!!!
Thank you kindly,
Mel

 

"Alfred Edersheim, John Newton and NASA and the USNObservatory: here is how we understand the Bible!!!?

In other words you are wrong, you know that you are wrong, now we all know that you are wrong, but you love tradition above truth and you are too proud to admitt it. :BangHead:

 

While there can be multiple ways in which the Scriptural principles can apply to our lives, that is not a "free-for-all" when it comes to Bible application. For the application to be proper, it must be based on a proper exegetical understanding of the text and be consistant with the intention or universal principles that spring from the text.

The classic example of this is applying Phil. 4.13 to winning a high school or college football game is not really appropriate to Paul's intention with he wrote that passage. Instead, it refers to the ability to be content and satisfied in Christ in all situations in life - even when life has dealt us a bad hand. (vs. 11-12)

Just my thoughts.

Randy

 

Most of the scholars I have read put the time of Jesus birth at around 4 BC, not Zero BC. That would be Jesus death around 29 AD.

The scholars say the vagaries of the calendars are the reason for their conclusion.

 

Tom,
You make a generalization without any specific name:

If you are contributing thoughts of a positive nature, you need to show references!
Tom, I see no challenge in your statements whatsoever!! You fail to refute any of
the evidence, even going back to John Newton, that Jesus may have died in AD 33!!!
Mel

 

Fair enough. I Googled the subject and found not a single view which supported yours. Almost without exception, they held the view that Jesus was born sometime between 2 and 7 BC. I didn't check them all, so there may be a stray opinion which supports yours.

 

Lastday

Tom Butler,
I googled "christ died on april 3 AD 33 total lunar eclipse" and got over
10,000 responses.
For Newton's date for the crucifixion, go to:
http://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/newton.html
Try the evidence given by Zenos Christian Fellowship:
http://www.xenos.org/classes/chronc.htm
Or TruthMagazine.com:
http://truthmagazine.com/archives/volume28/GOT028159.html?PHPSESSID=269e906005cce40adf6e3b0bbf01cded

WIKIPEDIA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion_of_Jesus
"Although there is no final consensus regarding the specific year or day, it is generally agreed by biblical scholars that it occurred during
the governorship of Pontius Pilate (between A.D. 26 and A.D. 36) on a Friday on or near Passover (Nisan 15). Several analyses based on astronomical data and computer simulations agree on the date Friday April 3, A.D. 33".

Tom, whatever you googled did not reference "up-to-date" findings since 2008 that support Friday, April 3, AD 33 (on which there was a
total lunar eclipse) for the correct date of Christ's death! On that same day, Passover Day in the year 2033 and on the first day of the
Feast of Tabernacles in the same year, there will be total lunar eclipses!! And that could fulfill both Joel 2:31 and Hosea 6:2 that God will
"return to deliver the Houses of Israel and Judah after two days...on the 3rd day"...at the sign of a total lunar eclipse!!!
Mel

 

The truth is that we have no absolute way of knowing the birthday of the Lord. Yes there is some different views but no way to be positive since there is no scripture given to base that event on. No amount of speculation will prove what day and year the Lord was born. What we can know is that the Lord said that He would spend three days and three nights in the ground. No matter how someone wants to twist truth it is impossible to get three days and three nights out of a Friday crucifixion. In fact it is impossible to get three days and two nights out of a Friday crucifixion. It is easy to see why the lost mock and laugh at the church when its people reject the words of the Lord that they claim to believe. :BangHead:
.

 

Over the years, I've looked at all the evidence there is for God, and also at all the evidence that there is not. It would appear that God has very carefully given us JUST ENOUGH evidence to know that He is -- so we can believe an informed faith instead of a blind faith -- but NOT QUITE ENOUGH to utterly prove that He exists and/or know any precise or exact detail about Him.

That almost has to be intentional... Because He knows all things, including the state of our hearts and how prone we are to wander, I can only imagine that God has purposefully hid most of the stuff that we would worship if just given the chance.

Praise Him! That we can worship Him alone, by faith, based in the reality of a risen Lord, who gave us the best proof -- an empty tomb and a resurrected Messiah!

 

I must have missed it because I thought we were discussing the year of Jesus' birth, not his death. Of course, his birth date will impact his death date.

 

Lastday

Tom Butler,
Thanks for clarifying that you thought we were discussing the year of Christ's
birth rather than His death. I had long ago proven that, if Daniel's 69 sets of
"7" began in Nisan of 444 BC, He had to die in AD 33. This is so obvious that
it cannot be disputed. But our friend, freeatlast, is accusing me of "twistiing
truth" to accept the "tradition" that Christ died on Friday, April 3, AD 33.

Here is his accusation against me:

My response to freeatlast's unprovable charge against me:

The date is not a matter of "truth vs tradition" but of factual interpretation!
Christ died on Friday if He fulfilled Zech.9:9 and Dan.9:26a on Palm Sunday!!
My point has been that, just as His death occurred exactly "five days after"
Palm Sunday to fulfill Dan.9:26a, so His second coming should occur during
the first or second day of the Feast of Tabernacles in 2033!!!
Mel

 

If what I said is so improvable then explain how you get three days and three nights in the grave from a Friday crucifixion.

 

Lastday

freeatlast,
You write:

 

Lastday

freeatlast,

You deny the evidence that the last solar day (#173,859) from Nisan 30 of BC 444 occurred on Palm Sunday when Jesus fulfilled both Zech.9:9 and Dan.9:26! You need to show your evidence to disprove it!! Jesus had to die on Nisan 14
to fulfill Lev.23:5 and that day was exactly 5 days after Palm Sunday, Nisan 9!!!

Because of the difference between the Pharisaic and Sadducean views as to whether the day began at sunrise or sunset, it was allowed that counting a single day should allow any part of 24 hours to be considered a whole day! From His burial between 3 and 6 PM on Friday was Day #1; Saturday was Day #2 and from 6 PM Saturday to His resurrection early Sunday was Day #3!! That fact fits evidence for Nisan 9, Sunday, as Christ's "Day of Visitation" and Nisan 14 which alone, among all other calculations, agrees with Lev.23:5!!!

Now for the clincher:
"Humphreys and Waddington add a new factor which previous scholars had not included. In Acts 2:14-22, it was reported that the 'Moon would turn to blood and the Sun turn to darkness' at the time of the Resurrection. This observation also appears in the so-called 'Report of Pilate' which was written by Pilate to Emperor Tiberius. If this is taken as a lunar eclipse, then the Crucifixion can be dated exactly.

"Lunar eclipses were frequently described exactly this way, even verbatum, by contemporary historians. Predictions show that there was only one lunar eclipse visible from Jerusalem at the time of passover in period from 26-36 AD. It occurred on Friday April 3, AD 33. The Moon rose above the horizon already in the midst of eclipse and would have progressively 'turned to blood' as the eclipse continued".

Now please show that Palm Sunday, Nisan 9, did "NOT" end the countdown from Nisan 30 of BC 444 to the final day of 476x365.25 days!
If you fail to show my calculation is wrong, you might have a foot on which to stand!! Otherwise, your viewpoint allows no room for discussion!!!
Mel

 

The question seems to me to be an issue, not of the LITERAL interpretation- though that generally is the most important- but, rather, is GOD SAYING THAT in that passage?

I think winman brought up a good text about the OT law concerning muzzling the ox. The literal interpretation is certainly concerning oxen. But Paul clearly says that God had a more important thing in mind- namely, as we all know, that God's minister should be cared for by those to whom he ministers.

What we cannot do, however, is take a passage and say something with it that God is not saying- in that passage or anywhere else.

 

My friend God has already proven your theory wrong when He said that Christ would be three days ands three nights in the earth. There was a succession year during the time of Daniel so you cannot start counting until a year aftyer them taking the throne so you are off on your calculations. Again show me how you can get three days and three nights with a Friday crucifixion. You keep hiding from the question because you know you are wrong.