Election: A Glorious Truth for all Christians

[personal attack removed]

 

Yes well.....good luck with that.

 

So did God choose you to misrepresent my position or did you choose it?

To answer your question: God chose me before the foundation of the world. He chose the means by which someone would present the Gospel to me.

I chose Him when I believed on the Lord Jesus Christ and was saved just like I was commanded to in the Bible.

This is getting nowhere. I am still thankful for God's election and His choice. He accepts my grateful praise.

 

I don't think God zaps anyone with faith. Faith comes by hearing "Romans 10:17" and hearing by the word "Rhema" of God. That said..... Jesus said you didn't choose me but I chose you. Other spots the Lord said I would have gathered you like a mother hen would her chicks but you wouldn't let me. I see both sides and I see where some become proud over there stance rather than humble. I cannot reconcile them both but I know who sees it clearly and will trust Him. I think anyone who says their point is the right point would have to deny other passages from the others camp.

 

It wasn't a personal attack -- it was a clarification.

 

The rules are at the bottom of each page. If you need to acquaint yourself with them again please do so. The language used in your so-called clarification was not needed at all, and now you have the intestinal fortitude to try and defend your own misdemeanors.

 

Yes, that's what I am saying. We will disagree then. :wavey:

 

I hold that the "pleasure of His good will" is to save those who will, in faith, trust in Christ, after hearing the Gospel message!

 

It would not matter if you were correct in every jot and tittle of your doctrine. This attitude is certainly contrary to the plain teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ. Remember:

Joh 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

 

I not only have not refused to answer this, it has been answered multiple times.

John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

The scriptures clearly say that "every man" that has been taught, hath heard, and hath learned of the Father comes to Jesus.

You cannot come to Jesus unless you first hear of him. You hear of Jesus through the scriptures, the word of God. And the scriptures clearly teach that faith comes through hearing the word of God. Nowhere do the scriptures teach that a man is regenerated by the Holy Spirit to have faith. In fact, the scriptures teach that a man first hears the word of God, then believes, and then only after believing receives the Holy Spirit. This has been shown to you and the others [personal attack removed]

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

I've noticed that Calvinists and Doctrines of Gracer's absolutely reverse the scriptures. They say exactly the opposite of what the scriptures say.

Calvinists say a man is regenerated by the Holy Spirit which gives them the gift of faith whereby they are able to believe the word of God. This is exactly the opposite order of what Ephesians 1:13 says.

[Personal attack removed]
It doesn't bother them in the least to teach exactly the opposite of what scripture says. Now, that is bold indeed.

Calvinists and DoGs teach that a man is given faith through grace, again exactly 180 degrees opposite of what the scriptures say.

What the scriptures say:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Yes, we are saved by grace, but that grace is received "through faith".

Here is how a Calvinist understands this verse:

For by faith are ye saved through grace

That is how a Calvinist and Doctrine of Gracer understands, and it is exactly 180 degrees opposite of what the scriptures say.

I see no discernment or understanding of scripture from Calvinist's and Doctrines of Gracers. It is amazing that they understand scripture completely opposite of what it is easily understood to say. [Personal attack removed]

Note: A Calvinistic position is not a false doctrine and cannot be called such. It is a differing position than your own. One cannot call it a false doctrine. DHK

 

winman:

[personal attack removed]

 

I did not have the chance to read what Rippon posted that was deemed a personal attack or whatnot, but the above quote is a subtle allusion to Calvinists and Doctrines of Gracers as being manipulative, deceptive, and liars, which is an attack on the integrity of those who hold to those doctrines.

Shouldn't there be rules on that, too ?

After all, we are all of us children of God, supposedly, in this board and forum, albeit differing in soteriology.

That being said, I'll be just as happy to trade punches anytime.

 

So when a fellow Arminian like Mr. Mitchell says things like this to me :"Your poor view of the sovereignty of God." Is that acceptable to you?

 

I'd like to see an Arminian mod delete and warn Mr. Winman regarding his remarks. It would demonstrate some impartiality.

 

Robert you are incorrect. There is an Old Testament Scripture that I believe is appropriate to consider in this matter of who is Sovereign in Salvation, the LORD God or man.

1 Kings 18:21. And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.

 

I can't choose. I'm trying, honestly, but I think my choice was made for me a long time ago...

:smilewinkgrin:

 

Why is a reference to somebody's apparent ignorance considered a personal attack and deleted, while insinuations on the integrity of others allowed to stand ? like this, from winman which practically accuses Calvinists and Doctrines of Gracers of deliberately, knowingly and willfully twisting Scriptures to deceive others ?

I've noticed that Calvinists and Doctrines of Gracer's absolutely reverse the scriptures. They say exactly the opposite of what the scriptures say.

 

That is his belief. It is not an attack. He is not calling you a name. You could say the same about him, and probably have somewhere down the line. You make the Scriptures say the opposite of what he believes and vice-versa. In other words you two stand at polar opposites of this discussion.

 

okay, if you say so, I guess I'll just have to learn to use subtility.
thanks.

 

So you are saying that every person who hears the Gospel is saved? If that is not what you are saying then answer the question: