Election and the many views of it?

Here's an interesting question. You say:

The problem is without God calling us and convicting us of our sins, we will continue in them, thus rejecting God and deserving hell.

This is a well accepted statement but how does it relate to this?

Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Obviously, God does both the calling and the choosing. What does this mean in the context of election. In my view this is like the banquet in which none of the invited guests show up and the master (God) tells his servants to go out and find replacements primarily among the poor.

My explanation is that God provides salvation to all who will accept it. (many are called.) However few choose to accept his offer. God chooses (elects) those who accept His call.

 

Its called rhetorical affirmation. Paul used it in the passage I quoted. I used it to reply to the post. All answers are understood.

 

To be clear, point out what you do not like in what I posted...

I'll repost...

you replied with this post...

saying...."You have taken questions and made statements out of them."

What do you disagree with? Why do you say this is words of men?

 

Because that was what I posted and that is the post that you quoted as you addressed me as seen in the link..
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost...2&postcount=78

Because all along I have asked you what you do not like about that one post and remind you that it was the Bible I quoted. Still you reply that .."the words of men have persuaded you, and convinced you"

Because they are. Its called rhetorical questions. Its in the Bible...yet another good reason to believe it.

I quoted a passage which you disagreed with. Is it the only passage I can quote? In no way. Yet for some reason you fail to tell why you disagree. me thinks you just playing games....me do.

now...what do you disagree with in what I posted. please quoted my words and show me what I said wrong. If you have nothing....keep playing your games. :BangHead:

 

this one is easy

He chose me in Him BEFORE the foundation of the world

why: Unknonw

Scripture here are a FEW:

Matthew 20:16 "So the last will be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen."

Matthew 24:22-24 "And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened. 23 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it. 24 "For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.


John 6:37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

John 6:39 "This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.

John 6:65 And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."

John 10:14-15 "I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. 15 "As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.

John 13:18 "I do not speak concerning all of you. I know whom I have chosen; but that the Scripture may be fulfilled, 'He who eats bread with Me has lifted up his heel against Me.'

John 15:19 "If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.

John 17:9 "I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.

John 17:19 "And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.

Acts 2:23 "Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have cru

Acts 2:46-47 So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart, 47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.

Acts 4:27-28 "For truly against Your holy Servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the people of Israel, were gathered together 28 "to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose determined before to be done.

Acts 13:48 Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

Acts 22:14 "Then he said, 'The God of our fathers has chosen you that you should know His will, and see the Just One, and hear the voice of His mouth.

Romans 8:29-30 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Romans 8:33 Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.

Romans 9:6-26 10 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, "The older shall serve the younger." 13 As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated." 14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion." 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth." 18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. 19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?" 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?" 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

Romans 11:5-28 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work. 7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written: "God has given them a spirit of stupor, Eyes that they should not see And ears that they should not hear, To this very day." 9 And David says: "Let their table become a snare and a trap, A stumbling block and a recompense to them. 10 Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see, and bow down their back always." 11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. 12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness! 13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them.
1 Corinthians 1:27-31 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; 28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29 that no flesh should glory in His presence. 30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God -- and righteousness and sanctification and redemption -- 31 that, as it is written, "He who glories, let him glory in the LORD."


Galatians 1:3-11 Grace to you and peace from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ, 4 who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, 5 to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen. 6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. 10 For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ. 11 But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man.

Galatians 3:11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for "the just shall live by faith."

Colossians 3:12-13 Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering; 13 bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do.

1 Thessalonians 1:2-4 We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers, 3 remembering without ceasing your work of faith, labor of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in the sight of our God and Father, 4 knowing, beloved brethren, your election by God.

1 Thessalonians 5:9-10 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Titus 1:1 Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness,

1 Peter 1:1-2 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:

1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

1 Peter 5:13 She who is in Babylon, elect together with you, greets you; and so does Mark my son.

2 Peter 1:10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble;

 

What I find really fascinating about all of this is the fact that Israel is chosen, but is the entire nation of Israel saved? Nope. So they aren't chosen to salvation.

They were chosen for a service - to initially spread the Gospel throughout the world, they were chosen as the country which gave birth to the Messiah, they were the country from which the Bible came.

Moses, Jacob, Abraham, Ezekiel, Isaiah were also chosen - also to perform a service. Why did God choose them? Because they had the right attitude, which confirms the scripture, many are called, but few are chosen. Many are called unto salvation, but few are chosen for Godly service.

Romans 9:9-13 - For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son. And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, THAT THE PURPOSE OF GOD ACCORDING TO ELECTION MIGHT STAND, not of works, but of him that calleth); It was said unto her, THE ELDER SHALL SERVE THE YOUNGER. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

It is clear from what we can see in the Bible that election has to do with service and NOT salvation.

Jesus even elected the Disciples - for service, one of them being Judas who was elected by Jesus to be a disciple, but was he saved? No, the Bible is very clear that he wasn't. Now there's one for the Calvinists to mull over - a person who is "chosen" yet ends up in hell.

In Isaiah 42:1 it says that Jesus Christ is the chosen servant of God. So does that mean God chose Him to be saved? No, He is the Saviour. Jesus' service was to be the Lamb of God. Jesus was chosen to be the Lamb of God.

Revelation 22:17 says - And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth, say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And WHOSOEVER WILL, let him take the water of life freely." (Rev. 22:17).

So if God chooses or elects us or predestines us to salvation then why does he invite us by saying "COME" and adds to that "WHOSOEVER WILL"???

The Bible isn't open to private interpretation. "Whosoever" means : Whatsoever person; any person whatever that; whoever.

 

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Moses had the right attitude? Didn't he tell God that he was a lousy speaker?
Jacob really had the right attitude. He was a deceiver! Plus, Romans 9 says he was chosen before he he had done anything good or bad.
Abraham? He claimed his wife was his sister in order to save his own skin. He didn't believe God and he slept with Hagar in order to get a son!

 

What sort of service was Abraham chosen for? How about Jacob?

 

Because he had a good attitude? Is that the same reason he chose Abraham?

 

He was chosen for the eventual Messiah to come through his line.