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Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by tinytim, Mar 19, 2008.

  1. Linda64

    Linda64 New Member

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    Don't worry about SFIC how will get along in heaven. In heaven we will all be perfect...so no problems, okay?
     
    #101 Linda64, Mar 20, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 20, 2008
  2. standingfirminChrist

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    My 'antics' as you call them line up with the Word of God. So I see no problem with me in heaven.
     
  3. Zenas

    Zenas Active Member

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    "The cup" encompassed all of this, but it may have a reference to something more specific. Remember, Jesus and His disciples had just left the feast of the Passover. The Passover meal followed a definite course of events.
    1. There was the festival blessing and the drinking of the first cup.
    2. The eating of a dish of herbs.
    3. The Passover narrative and the drinking of the second cup.
    4. The eating of the main meal of lamb and unleavened bread.
    5. The drinking of the third cup, the "cup of blessing." 1 Cor. 10:16.
    6. Singing a hymn.
    7. Drinking the fourth cup.

    We can trace the meal in the synoptics by the sequence of eating the bread, drinking the cup and singing the hymn. So something is missing here--the fourth cup. Could this be the cup that Jesus prayed would pass from Him? Could the fourth cup have been the cup of vinegar Jesus took just before his death? It sort of makes sense and it explains why Jesus referred to "this cup" rather than "this ordeal" or "this trial" or something similar.
     
  4. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    What is the 4th cup in the passover meal?
     
  5. Linda64

    Linda64 New Member

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    It's called the "cup of acceptance"

    During Jesus' last Passover Seder, it was the cup of acceptance Jesus referred to when He said, "...I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom (Matthew 26:29)." Jesus knew that He would be rejected by the nation of Israel, just as the prophets had predicted. Israel would turn her back on God's promised Messiah. Instead of the kingdom being established at that time, the Messiah became the sacrificial Lamb of God who would provide spiritual redemption for all people.

    No, it was not at this time that He would drink this last cup of wine with His people. That would have to wait for His second coming, the Kingdom Age, the promised time when Israel would embrace Him as their Messiah and King and they would be received as the children of God.

    The promise of acceptance of Exodus 6:7, "And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God..." will one day be realized. Israel will accept her Messiah and He will accept them. The prophet Zechariah saw this day when he penned the ultimate fulfillment of this promise, "...they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people, and they shall say, The LORD is my God. (Zech. 13:9)" or, as he said earlier, "...and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced... (Zech. 12:10)."

    As Israel accepts her Messiah Jesus, God, in return, will receive them into His family and Kingdom. The time for the drinking of that fourth cup will have arrived.
     
  6. LeBuick

    LeBuick New Member

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    By and By when the morning comes.

    We'll understand it better by and by... :thumbs:
     
  7. LeBuick

    LeBuick New Member

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    Interesting thought but I would have to say the 100% man had limitations and didn't comprehend everything but I don't believe the 100% God had that limitation. I believe God can and does get tired, maybe not physically but tired just the same.

    In the wilderness, wasn't that temptation for God? The man couldn't turn a stone to bread but the divinity could. This is the co-dwelling of man and God that really makes the two one. For the man to eat God must make the stone bread yet that would have been sinful in nature for God. Talking about at war with yourself...
     
  8. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    That's why I'm comfortable in accepting the plain impression of this text: "My God, my God, why have you forsaken Me?

    Jesus said Me.

    But we think we need to rationalize on and on.
     
  9. Trotter

    Trotter <img src =/6412.jpg>

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    OK, I skipped over all the petty stuff and most of what was in between...

    Jesus was hanging on the cross, suspended between heaven and earth, taking our penalty for sin. It was God the Father who poured that wrath upon Jesus. At that moment, the solidarity that had always been between the Trinity was broken. Jesus was still God, but He was also made sin for us. Sin breaks the communion we have with God, and the same had to happen right then and there.

    God did not desert Jesus, but the fellowship between the Father and the Son was cut off by our sin. Did God forsake Jesus? Yes, in a sense. He did not abandon Him, nor did He leave Him. The intimacy and oneness of the Godhead was disrupted as the sinles became sin, the incorruptible became corrupted. It was much like ripping an infant from his mother's breast... the contact, the intimacy that He had always had, even before time began, was severed.

    Do I have verses to show all of that? I could cobble a bunch together, but there is no need. Sin is that which separates us from God, but it does not cause God to abandon us. If it did, we would have no hope. The Son took upon Himself our sin, and in so doing He lost, for a time, His closeness of walking with the Father. Praise God that that was not how the story ended, though!
     
  10. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    Thank you...
     
  11. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    I think you've said a mouthful...and a truthful mouthful.

    There are simply some things that our 7 pounds of water, protein, and neurons simply won't be able to assimilate this side of glory.

    Doesn't mean we shouldn't do our best to study and learn....doesn't mean it didn't factually happen....


    Just means we see through a glass, darkly.
    (some of us see through a glass very darkly!) :laugh:
     
  12. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    Not a good interpretive method.

    He said, "My God, My God" because He was quoting Psalm 22.

    I'm not arguing with your conclusion, but let's not use a faulty hermeneutic to get there.
     
  13. Steven2006

    Steven2006 New Member

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    I am not saying I disagree with you. However, I always thought that since Jesus had prior to that always referred to God as "Father", that this time by instead calling Him God, it actually indicated the opposite of the point you are making.
     
  14. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    Really, all you have to do is to start a thread on the subject, instead of addressing what you call a heresy right here on this thread, you know.
    I submit to you that if the phrase the whole world means the entire earth and all humankind in it, then either the Savior failed in His mission of redemption, or the whole world refers to the world wherein the elect of God is scattered, in which case, He succeeded in His mission.

    Don't answer, IF you really do not want this thread derailed.

    Start a thread. Address the issue with an attitude worthy of what you call youself, and I will be more than happy to participate.

    Better still, I will start the thread later, since this is an issue that I haven't been able to discuss at length with brethren here.
     
    #114 pinoybaptist, Mar 21, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 21, 2008
  15. standingfirminChrist

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    Scripture says Christ died that the world might be saved, not would be.

    Many reject His offer of Salvation. It is not because God chose them to reject it.

    Your post is very arrogant, pinoy. You limit the blood that was shed for the sins of the whole world. That, my friend is a heresy.

    Whole, not part.

    How do you know you are one of the elect?
     
  16. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    Well... Just for the record; I noticed it right away, but I've also heard the desperate argument to prove "whole world" doesn't mean "whole"...:rolleyes: Yep, even got admonished once for being too harsh on John Piper for his interpretation of the "whole" :BangHead: Sometimes I just think it better to stick my head in a hole. But I hear ya! :laugh:
     
  17. standingfirminChrist

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    Christ said if He was lifted up He would draw all men, not all elect, unto Him.

    I will believe Christ before I believe such hogwash as 'Christ ordained me to life eternal and not you.'
     
  18. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    I would be interpreting scripture with scripture, but you can just focus on the one verse if you wish. :smilewinkgrin:
     
  19. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    Then we read v. 2:

    O my God, I cry by day, but you do not answer,
    and by night, but I find no rest.
     
  20. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    That is a very Christian way to talk, and I seem to recall you were the one complaining about how some people here were picking on you.

    Okay, let's take "all men".

    Is that "all men" as in all men ? As in all mankind ?
    If it is, then apparently Christ has failed, and failed miserably, because you know what ?
    If He successfully draws all men unto Him, your beloved Israel would not have Islam in it right now, and all men would be seeking after Him.

    Now, if He did not fail (which is the truer statement here)then He does draw "all men" to Him.
    Rich, poor, ruler, slave, Jew, Gentile, Chinese, Japanese, Black, White, Muslim, Catholic, Atheist, Skeptic, man, woman, black, white, racist, liberal, prisoner, cop, soldier, spy, sodomite, lesbian, even us unworthy brown monkeys.

    And you, yourself, know for a fact of many testimonies of all men from all walks of life who had known the drawing power of the Father to His Son.

    So, why does He draw one man, and not the other ? Or one woman, and not the next ?

    Before you let your hatred of what I believe show, or is it me personally you hate (just say so), think well of your argument.

    It'll help you a lot, and who knows, one of these days, you may find that people who debate with you seem to actually enjoy debating with you and your conversation with each other will not degenerate into childish bickering and pouting like what happened here.

    Don't go into a knee-jerk reaction and allow what has been preached to you as truth to flow out of your mouth without understanding where the other is coming from first.

    You remind me of my Bible College professor, who hated the Doctrine of Grace (what you call Calvinism or Election) so much he tried to destroy John Mc'Arthur before a class of 30 students, forgetting that these 30 had a mind of their own and knows research, and that there is a God in Heaven who hears every word. That professor swore, being president of the College, he will strike out the names of every student who becomes a Calvinist, or an adherent to Election (since Doctrine of Grace is not a very well known phrase over there in brown monkey country).

    He had to strike out at least five names I know of, including myself.

    Another poster here accused me of injecting heresy into this lily-white, august body of all-knowing theologians (apparently I pricked his righteous conscience and offended his pristine pureness and his perfect doctrine) such as yourself.

    Well, I gather both you and he are for preaching the gospel to the whole world.

    Suppose I tell you you're too late, and you're calling yourself to a duty no one has called you to do but yourself, because the Bible itself says the gospel has already been preached to the whole earth, what now ?

    I suppose you will not only call what I said hogwash ?
    Maybe you're going to call it bulldung ?
    But, of course, you're going to use such words in the spirit of academe, of lovingkindness, of brotherhood, and of following Christ, right ?

    I am going to start another thread for the benefit of that Christian poster who is a pastor. You can go and bring your attitude and language in.
    You're most welcome.
    Not that I can't be as caustic-tongued as some are on this board, I promise you I can be worse, but lately I've been trying to follow the admonition of James regarding the use of the tongue, you know.

    I apologize to the OP for being off-topic on this one.
     
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