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Embryo Stem Cell Research

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Marcia, Aug 13, 2004.

  1. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    I cannot condone the use of murdered embryos. The ends do not justify the means in Christianity. It reminds me so much of the parts used from dead people in the concentration camps to make soap and lampshades. They took out the gold from their teeth, too. Why waste all that gold?

    To be frank, it actually makes me almost physically ill to think of cells from embryos who are purposefully killed or discarded being used for anything.
     
  2. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    I cannot condone the use of murdered embryos. The ends do not justify the means in Christianity. It reminds me so much of the parts used from dead people in the concentration camps to make soap and lampshades. They took out the gold from their teeth, too. Why waste all that gold?

    To be frank, it actually makes me almost physically ill to think of cells from embryos who are purposefully killed or discarded being used for anything.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Many don't see where it would be any different than someone becoming a donor. Believe me, I know it's a difficult subject. We have, to some extent have had family members and friends involved in these situations. Many don't believe there is clearly a true black and white cut and dried position for this.

    AVL1984
     
  3. Brett

    Brett New Member

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    I cannot condone the use of murdered embryos. The ends do not justify the means in Christianity. It reminds me so much of the parts used from dead people in the concentration camps to make soap and lampshades. They took out the gold from their teeth, too. Why waste all that gold?

    To be frank, it actually makes me almost physically ill to think of cells from embryos who are purposefully killed or discarded being used for anything.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Actually, there is no evidence that they made soap or lampshades out of dead people. Read the historical section in the book Why People Believe Weird Things.

    Aside from that, in this case, the "means" is not killing an innocent baby to do research on it, but using an already-dead baby to potentially save thousands and thousands of lives. If the baby is already dead, how is immoral to use it to save lives? Because of some vague notion of "respect"? Because it gives you an unpleasant feeling? Come on! If I had a loved one who could be cured by stem-cell research, but such research was halted by those with queasy feelings, I'd be very angry indeed. Can you come up with a moral argument as to why already-dead embryos should not be used? Note that I am definitely NOT talking about killing ambryos to do research - we can all agree about the (im)morality of that. But there is no justification for not using embryos that are already dead.
     
  4. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    Can you explain how you come up with the embryo's being already dead? If they are fertilized and still in the frozen capacity, they are not already dead as far as I know. We're talking about embryo's that are going to be discarded. Or are you talking about the embryo's that "do not take" in the process of implantation?

    AVL1984
     
  5. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    The vast majority are NOT dead but are frozen embryos "left over" or "unwanted" by those who went through in vitro fertilization. So these are viable embryos that are killed to get the stem cells. This is murder whether the embryos are wanted or not.

    Furthermore, if this is allowed, it is not far to cross the line to created embryos in order to "harvest" them for their stem cells, which requires their deaths. In fact, this is what is being pushed by many private labs who want to do this. I am not sure what should be done with these unwanted frozen embryos, but nothing can Biblically justify killing them for any reason. They contain the whole DNA for growth and are human.

    Also, researchers now want to clone an embryo in order to harvest his/her cells. This involves destruction of the clone embryo. One may are argue that a clone embryo is not human but I am not sure of that. Until the moral issues are clear, we should not be fooling around with creating and destroying embroys, however that is done. If it is human life, then it is human life.

    An atheist but prolife man I once knew said that "once you put a price on human life, the price always comes down."

    California is about to vote on a proposition to fund embryo stem cell research with public money:

     
  6. JamesJ

    JamesJ New Member

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    So you're saying that, given the option of using them to cure diseases and relieve human suffering, or giving them a "proper burial", you would choose the latter? Of what benefit is the latter to anybody? </font>[/QUOTE]Yes, I choose the latter. It is of benefit to them, who others would kill to selfishly use their body parts, to extend their own lives.
     
  7. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    Easy for you to say, JJ, but how about when you're faced with the reality of having one of the many diseases that could be cured by harvesting of these stem cells (if it could truly be done)? You might be singing a different tune. No one will ever know until they are faced with it.

    AVL1984
     
  8. JamesJ

    JamesJ New Member

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    You don't know me, and you can't say what I'd do if faced with that decision. I find it very offensive that you'd go there. I would NEVER kill one to treat myself. I couldn't live knowing I had someone's body parts that didn't KNOWINGLY give them (such as an organ donor). Jesus said that there is no greater gift than to lay down your life for a friend. These few-cells persons cannot make that offer. How can I even consider taking a life to treat mine? How dare you intimate that I might!
     
  9. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    I stated "might". I never said you would be. I find it offensive that you state I've said something I have not. Grow up. I can intimate that you might, because the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked...who can know it??? We can all say what we'd do, but the truth comes at the point of decision.

    AVL1984
     
  10. JamesJ

    JamesJ New Member

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    Grow up, huh? That's what you have to say? Here's where we part ways. Since you have to be insulting I will not continue any further. I'll just leave you with this. When you go and answer to God for your actions, how will you justify yourself for not standing in the gap for the unborn humans, whose body parts that you say might cure disease? How can you stand before God and do that? I'd like to be there.


    (edited only to repair bolding)

    [ August 23, 2004, 09:39 AM: Message edited by: dianetavegia ]
     
  11. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    JJ, if parting ways is the only way you can handle things, I feel sorry for you. :( No offense was meant by telling you to grow up. I have never stated that I personally would partake of medicinal cures having had the use of aborted parts or embryonic stem cells, etc. I have, however stated that we can all say we wouldn't, but, if it came right down to it, we do not really know because we are human, and humans often do fall into human logic instead of Godly principles. [​IMG]

    Anyhow, since you're "parting ways", have a wonderful life! [​IMG]

    AVL1984 [​IMG]
     
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