Emerging Church

That's great - but you have to realize you are in the minority. And who said anything about bending to the secular culture?

 

It may help to distinguish something that is part of the culture, and something that is worldly by the Bible's definition. Culture is not bad. I think those against EC are assuming when the culture is used, then it automatically means the church is using worldly means.

The traditional church is running on a particular culture, for example. It just happens to be a culture that is running on fumes. Suit and ties, hymns and choir robes, pues and pulpits, sanctuaries and education buildings, all a part of a particular culture. Culture is not inherently bad.

 

What is worldly by the Bible's definition?

 

Good question. What do you think it is?

I would say that worldly is something of the flesh...something that appeals to our sinful nature, and feeds it. As described in Ephesians 2. Maybe that is not the way people mean it whenever they describe their cautions with the EC. But I think people are meaning this when what they are really talking about is cultural differences, not something that is feeding the sinful (worldly) nature.

Do you think I have a wrong perception of the word? What do you think?

 

The problem with so many of these movements is that they are short lived and then along comes another movement and another guru. So often the movements are leader focused in an effort to reach others. Jesus gave the plan. We will most likely reach the people like us. The church needs to recognize the importance of equipping the saints for ministry not put so much effort on a movement and a large group of people. The vast majority of people are reached by a friend not by any movement.

If every church member were equipped to disciple people then they could do that wherever they live and work. It is not dependent on a pastor, staff or church building. Too much emphasis is often placed on the assembly and not focused on individuals.

Even my daughter who is in high school has mentioned how so much has been dumbed down in church. She has commented in most youth groups she has visited that they do not bring their Bibles. It is so much about fun and worship. This summer she is not going to a church camp but rather a camp run by parachurch organization that majors on making disciples.

 

Titus 2:12
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

I would say that if you figure out what is sober, righteous and godly, then the opposite of that would be ungodly and worldly.

 

The idea here is more on the lines of impeity, idolatry, selfishness, immorality than methodological issues. The emphasis of the text is on daily practice in self-discipline and not on methodological pursuits in our churches. The Pauline usage of the term asebeia ("godlessness") which is a focal point in his letters is more on the lines of idolatry and evil, selfish conduct towards neighbors and others. The correlation of everything in the "world" (i.e. music styles, missional living, powerpoint slides, video clips, etc.) isn't in Paul's force here. Rather it is the nature of our personal testimonies out and about that is under inspection.

Thus the idea of missional living and relevant teaching using secular examples (I hate using that term) wouldn't apply here as some might suggest. The reality is in all of our churches nearly all things, at some point or another, was viewed as "worldly" and not "sacred" by someone. Yet that is not the force of the NT view of these things.

 

I'm sorry but all your big words have confused me. Please try again.

 

Okay James, so it sounds like we have similar definitions of "worldly". So we agree.

My point is that things that are cultural, and used to reach cultures, are not bad. They are in fact good. I think some who have cautions are treating things as if they are worldly (as in our definitions), when they are not.

 

"The goal of reading Scripture for its meaning—as opposed to several other appropriate and necessary ways to read Scripture—is not so much to find the meaning in the text as it is to, through a process of careful triangulation (along the axes of text, community, and tradition),6 hear the voice of God speak into our present life context through the pages of Scripture. "Myron Penner


“The bible should merely point us in the direction of finding God’s unique individual revelation through his Spirit, and not be used as the once-for-all, static revelation of what God has said to others in the past.”
Peter Schumacher


Biblical interpretation: An openness to consider a plurality of interpretations as well as the impact of the reader's cultural context on the act of interpretation in contrast to the primacy of the author's intent and cultural context.

Dr. Phil Zylla



http://churchandpomo.typepad.com/conversation/2006/10/a_postmodern_bi.html

 

BINGO!!!!! And when this generation looks at our churches, for the most part they see no "us"

 

Someone who will ot come to church just because of a lack of subculture is not looking for God but instead are only looking for their own way.

 

So do you always make judgements on things without researching primary sources?

I am quite sure I could take bits and pieces of all kinds of posts from you and make a case for you being a heretic. Would that be fair to you? Of course not!

Yet we allow the same for people talking about others that they disagree with. It is pure hypocrisy!

 

How do you know?

 

It is rediculous to say that"I will come to God if it meets my standards" the rich young ruler tried that. it didnt work out to well for him. those who are serious about seeking God are broken and not concerned with subcultures. It is Christs way or the highway. And thanks for confirming what I said.

 

What I'm saying, is how do you know they just aren't looking for someone, or some place to relate to?

 

Nobody said anything about "If God meets my standards". Where did you pull that out of?

 

So what you're really saying is they can't be interested in meeting God unless they look, think, talk, and act like you.

 

And you should really lose the word subculture. People who like tatoos are a subculture. People who understand the infield fly rule are a subculture. We're talking about a generation.

 

I work with a non-Christian man who told me that he has visited a number of churches in the area and told me that basically they lack substance. He sees a lot of music and emotion but little or no substance in the preaching. The discussions we have are full of substance. I know he is doing some soul searching by the questions he asks. He asks good questions which require some good thought out answers.