"Emerging Church"

Joel Smiles **TOO** much.

I have *never* been able to handle a sugary smile...


The morning message, IMHO, was and is never intended to replace the foundational teachings given in Sunday School and New Member Classes.

This is a problem not just in Charismatic Circles but even in some mainline and fundamentalist churches as they neglect the Discpleship of Sunday School.

You simply can not teach all that needs to be taught in one sermon a week...

 

That is not quite accurate. Joel Olsteen is more of the "name it and claim it" genre of charismatic preachers. He especially disavows preaching about sin (or much about the Bible at all), preferring to preach God's goodness. He is not "emergent" either.

Emergent churches are more wrapped around the mystery of God. They tend to try to return to the 1st century styles, and are equally enamored with signs and symbols of the faith versus simple solid, and biblical teaching.

Here is the primary web site for the emergent church, though of course, the very nature of the emergent church means that no one is actually speaking collectively for the movement -- that is one of its hallmarks -- but this is as close to a gathering point as there is.

http://www.emergentvillage.com/index.php

 

Laughter in church always seemed to get me in trouble. My dad would turn around and give that look which, in reality, only made it worse. I'm surprised that I don't have permanent tooth marks on my thumb from biting it too keep from laughing. Even worse was the time that a horrible sound arose from the congregation during the choir special. We youth were wondering what that sound was until Mrs. E)(*&^ stood up and stated that she loved that song so much that she just had to sing along. I busted out laughing only to find that my pew squeaked. The more I tried to stop laughing the more it squeaked and the deeper the the teeth imprints got on my thumb.

 

SpiritualMadMan...

You described a "fire tunnel" this way...

Concerning it, you said something like "Im crazy but not THAT crazy"


I have never encountered one of those but based on your description I dont know what the issue would be.

I have NEVER turned down prayer if someone wants to pray for me.

If all these brothers and sisters want to lay there hands on me briefly and pray for me I'm going to say "By all means, have at it!"

Were they saying prayers that were somehow dangerous sounding , or heretical, or anything like that?


AiC

 

Running the Gauntlet.

 

Yes, that's sort've a good description.

And, the to previous poster...

It's not just a prayer line.

It is truly running the gaunlet with people laying hands on you and praying and prophesying with a level of confusion that has to be experienced to be believed.

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/f29.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns2ISpAaixo
This video is pretty tame compared to what I experienced.

http://www.xomba.com/how_have_fire_tunnel

I have *YET* to find any Scriptural basis for this "Phenomena". Not even on a "stretched basis".

And, that is some pretty strong language from a Pentecostal who has been in the midst of some very strong manifestation of God's Power.

 

This a view of what could probably be called an emerging church...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=453-Gnyr-1Q&feature=player_embedded

 

Here's one with a Hip-Hop (Rap) style...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD8WahgWtO4&feature=player_embedded

 

None of what you guys are describing are "Emergent" or "Emerging" churches. They are charismatic whacko churches, but not Emerging.

 

glfredrick...

Thank you for staying on topic and providing an informative link to Emerging Church.

. . .

Is there a way to identify Emerging Churches in specific communities?

...Bob

 

No problem... Lots of misinformation in this thread.

Identifying emerging churches is difficult, because they are only subtly different than other newly planted churches. At the end, it comes down to grasping their theology, not viewing their culture, etc. Culture can be almost anything, but theology sets apart one church from another in the truest sense of "sets apart."

Emerging churches will lay aside any tenet of theology that they find problematic (or find some creative work-around for that theology) instead of preaching the whole Word of God. Which tenets they set aside depends on the individual church. Some have issues with the Trinity. Some with the law. Some with God saving by grace through faith. Some have given in to metaphysical dualism (God is actually at war with a co-equal evil power). Others have strange doctrines regarding the ordinances. Almost all feature "mystery" over substance. Defining "mystery" is about as impossible as defining Roman Catholic "Sacred Tradition" (and the two are related in kind -- all rather "Gnostic" in nature).

How they set aside those problematic doctrines is where outside observers get in trouble, for mostly they see "culture" and the culture is often so far different from the run-of-the-mill Baptist church as to make the emerging church almost unrecognizable. The room is often dark. They feature candles. They are often liturgical. They are about "absorbing God" versus "learning of God." Their preaching is often more along the lines of "good examples to follow" than propositions designed to point out our shortcomings before an Holy God, who is also our Judge.

I recommend checking out the church links in the website I supplied above. Follow some sermons, etc. See what they are doing.

One other thing... Many would see the church I currently attend as "emerging" and we "almost" are. Some have lumped us in with that group. We have adopted a lot of the same cultural indicators as many emerging churches. But, there is one big difference. We preach the gospel as presented by the Scriptures and have NO reservations about the entirety of God's Word and the doctrines of the Scriptures. In our church you will hear sermons on a weekly basis that major on God's sovereignty, and that present God's way of life for believers. We are more formal on this aspect of our work than many a traditional Baptist church. We actually covenant with our members to live out the gospel and we will enact church discipline for those who refuse (not simply fail -- we all struggle!) to live Christianly according to the teaching of our Elders and the contents of the Scripture (one and the same -- tested in the Berean means).

 

That would do it for me.

Out the door

As fast as possible

 

Why? Just because hip hop or rap is not your thing?

It is the thing for countless people under the age of 30.

This person -- stage name "Flame" is a Grammy winning rapper, who also happens to be a student at Southern Seminary. He is solid, Evangelical, and doing a great work with young people across America:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wphfy_vM5-U

 

Excellent post...points being:

• Evaluate that church--not other ones you suspect might be similar. Now...if they claim to follow a certain church or doctrine, that's one thing. But we've been accused of silly stuff over the years, simply because of a tangential similarity. (Rick Warren and his PDC stuff irritates me; you wore a Hawaiian shirt to our Sunday School Luau; therefore, you are apostate. Silly, but you get the point...)
• Check your sources. If your info comes from someone with an axe to grind, dig further. What does the church say about itself? One time, I had someone claim that a sister church was a part of the emerging movement simply because they didn't have Sunday evening services, or have monthly business meetings. Seriously. We have to separate valid criticisms out from silly nit-picking.

 

Glfrederick....

No, thats not it. Classical music is "not my thing", but I can listen to it. It does'nt cause me pain or anything, but I just dont care for it much. Southern Gosple is not really my thing, but I can listen to it as well.

But...rap and hip hop make such a horrible wretched noise...to my ears...that I would have to get away from it. As soon as it started I would go outside and stand until it was over, and then come in and be part of the rest of the service

I know. And they are free to stay and listen to that stuff.

But I would have no choice but to get away from it while it is going on. I wouldnt leave the church or anything, I would simply wait outside till it was over and then come back inside for the rest of the service.

AiC

 

Even if hundreds or even a thousand young people were listening and praising God while a hip hop artist led worship?

Had just such an event at Southern Seminary last night... Over 1000 in attendance. All praising God well enough to knock the dust out of the rafters of the chapel.

I'll take that any day even if that is not my preferred music style (and it isn't). My preferred style is people praising God and I don't care how.

 

Yes...even then. I would have to get away from that noise until it was over. Then I would came back. The noise that rap makes is so hidious and horrible (to my ears) that I just have to get away from it.

Praise the Lord!! I'm glad to hear of that. I really am.

But I would have had to leave during the rap part. I'm not "against" it...but I cant tolerate the noise it makes. Its so repulsive to me.

AiC

 

I remember going to "Acquire The Fire" in Charleston, SC and being literally driven out of the concert hall by the bass.

Seems even at that younger age I wasn't enough of a hard body to keep my chest cavity from going into oscillation.

It was very unnerving... I was completely undone... And, was followed out by a venue official who asked me if I wanted EMS!

So, yes! It can get pretty "loud", (for adults)

My two kids loved it, and suffered no ill effects though.

Many decisions to disciple and there was church follow up.