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Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Van, Apr 14, 2019.

  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    [​IMG]

    “Tithemi” has three basic meanings, to set something somewhere; (2) to change the status of someone for a purpose; and (3) to present or set forth an idea or account, such as set forth the gospel.

    The first basic meaning is to put, place, set, or lay something somewhere. This meaning is by far the most common meaning found in scripture.

    The second basic meaning, to change the status of someone for a purpose, either by designating a person for a task or office, or by establishing needed characteristics of a person such that they can complete a task or fulfill the requirements of the office. Thus to empower someone by gifting them for a specific assignment.

    The third basic meaning is to present or set forth something developed for a purpose, such as to set forth the gospel.

    The second and third basic meaning can be translated into English using designate or assign, empower, and set forth.

    Lets look at the verses where the second or third basic meaning appears to be the intended meaning:

    Matthew 24:51, and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    Luke 12:46, the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers.

    John 15:16, You did not choose Me but I chose you, and empowered you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.

    Here, I think "empowered" better presents the intended message. In order to bear fruit, we must abide in Christ and Christ in us; therefore we are a new creation. We are in Christ, and indwelt, empowering us for good works.

    Acts of the Apostles 1:7, He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has designated by His own authority;

    Designated conveys the message more transparently.

    Acts of the Apostles 5:4, While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have developed this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”

    Here I think developed captures the idea better, the evil plan was not just conceived, it was developed, arranged and set forth in his heart as a plan of action.

    Acts of the Apostles 13:47, For so the Lord has commanded us, ‘I HAVE EMPOWERED YOU AS A LIGHT FOR THE GENTILES, THAT YOU MAY BRING SALVATION TO THE END OF THE EARTH.’

    Here, I think, “empowered” you as a light better reflects the gifting of Paul by the Holy Spirit.

    Acts of the Apostles 20:28, Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has empowered you as overseers, to shepherd the church of God, which He purchased with His own blood.

    Here, “empowered” you as overseers provides the implication of a changed (converted) status, i.e. gifted in administration.

    Acts of the Apostles 27:12, Because the harbor was not suitable for wintering, the majority developed and set forth a decision to put out to sea from there, if somehow they could reach Phoenix, a harbor of Crete, facing southwest and northwest, and spend the winter there.

    The majority developed and set forth the decision to put out to sea. Again, the idea is not just a conceived idea, but a developed plan, involving not only to leave, but where to go and why.

    Romans 4:17, (as it is written, “A FATHER OF MANY NATIONS HAVE I MADE YOU”) in the presence of Him whom he believed, even God, who gives life to the dead and calls into being that which does not exist.

    Here, if we stick with a literal translation of “tithemi” we would go with “designated.” However, that would obscure the linkage to Genesis 17:5 where we find “made.” While the Hebrew word in Genesis also means to put or set, it is translated as “made” over 100 times.

    1 Corinthians 9:18, “What then is my reward? That, when I preach the gospel, I may set forth the gospel without charge, so as not to make full use of my right in the gospel.

    Here, set forth the gospel points to a full presentation, and not an abbreviated feel good alteration.

    1 Corinthians 12:28, And God has empowered in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.

    For the same reason, “empowered” is better here, pointing to the gifting of the Holy Spirit rather than putting someone not specially equipped in a position.

    2 Corinthians 5:19, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has set forth to us the word of reconciliation.

    Set forth better captures the idea of reconciliation being provided through the whole gospel.

    1 Thessalonians 5:9, For God has not designated us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

    Designated works best here, i.e. God has set us apart for salvation.

    1 Timothy 2:7, For this I was designated and empowered as a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

    “Designated and empowered” seems better, conveying both the assignment by God and the gifting of Paul by the Holy Spirit.

    2 Timothy 1:11, for which I was empowered as a preacher and an apostle and a teacher.

    Again, “empowered as” seems a better choice.

    Hebrews 1:2, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He designated as heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

    “Designated as” seems better, because of Christ’s accepted sacrifice.

    1 Peter 2:8, and, “A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE”; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also designated.

    Again, they were designated because of their stumbling over salvation through faith and not works.

    2 Peter 2:6, and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having set them forth as them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter;

    Here, I think, “set them forth as” is better than “made” because the purpose was to provide an illustration.

    In summary, G5087, tithemi, is used about 17 times where the meaning is designate or assign (6 times), empower (6 times), and develop or set forth (5 times.)

    One of the key insights arising from this word study is that God did not just assign a person to an office or task, many times He equipped the person,i.e. gifts of the Holy Spirit, so as to empower the person for that task or office.

    God not only put us in Christ, He gave us a holy calling (be ambassadors of Christ with the ministry of reconciliation) and specifically empowered us to accomplish our part of His ministry. Praise God
     
    #1 Van, Apr 14, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Here is an add on:
    Mark 4:30 NASB
    And He said, "How shall we picture the kingdom of God, or by what parable shall we present it?

    Here the meaning is to present or set forth an illustration of the kingdom of God using a parable.
    The one chosen was a mustard seed, that starts out small, but grows into something large. When we are put in Christ and Christ in us (indwelling) the incorruptible seed starts small. But as we pray, humble ourselves, and strive to become more Christ-like, we grow to Christian maturity, still flawed but like a broken reed, willing to serve to the best of our ability.
     
  3. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Ironically (if that is a good way to express this) the dispensational view is contrary.

    The picture is presented as the birds being evil as in the parable of the soils.
    The tree representing professing Christendom with all its heretical branches.

    Just saying.
     
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Not sure how other parables entered the topic, I did not see heretical branches, but branches providing nesting for some of His birds. Mark 4:30-34.

    In my neck of the woods, the Mustard shrubs are growing and blooming like never in my lifetime, some growing to eight feet tall.
     
    #4 Van, Apr 15, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I think at least one revision is needed because of my mistake.

    John 15:16, You did not choose Me but I chose you, and designated you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.

    Here, I think "designated" better presents the intended message. In order to bear fruit, the Apostles had been empowered by the discipleship of Christ, and would be empowered at Pentecost with the anointing of the Holy Spirit.
     
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    This is the Revised and Extended Version of the Opening Post

    “Tithemi” has three basic meanings, to set something somewhere; (2) to change the status of someone for a purpose; and (3) to present or set forth an idea or account, such as set forth the gospel.

    The first basic meaning is to put, place, set, or lay something somewhere. This meaning is by far the most common meaning found in scripture.

    The second basic meaning, to change the status of someone for a purpose, either by designating a person for a task or office, or by establishing needed characteristics of a person such that they can complete a task or fulfill the requirements of the office. Thus to empower someone by gifting them for a specific assignment.

    The third basic meaning is to present or set forth something developed for a purpose, such as to set forth the gospel.

    The second and third basic meaning can be translated into English using designate or assign, empower, and present or develop or set forth.

    Lets look at the verses where the second or third basic meaning appears to be the intended meaning:

    Matthew 24:51, and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    Mark 4:30
    And He said, "How shall we picture the kingdom of God, or by what parable shall we present it?

    Here the meaning is to present or set forth an illustration of the kingdom of God using a parable.

    Luke 12:46, the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers.

    John 15:16, You did not choose Me but I chose you, and designated you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.

    Here, I think "designated" better presents the intended message. In order to bear fruit, the Apostles had been empowered by the discipleship of Christ, and would be empowered at Pentecost with the anointing of the Holy Spirit.

    Acts of the Apostles 1:7, He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has designated by His own authority;

    Designated conveys the message more transparently.

    Acts of the Apostles 5:4, While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have developed and set forth this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”

    Here I think developed and set forth captures the idea better, the evil plan was not just conceived, it was developed, arranged and set forth in his heart as a plan of action.

    Acts of the Apostles 13:47, For so the Lord has commanded us, ‘I HAVE EMPOWERED YOU AS A LIGHT FOR THE GENTILES, THAT YOU MAY BRING SALVATION TO THE END OF THE EARTH.’

    Here, I think, “empowered” you as a light better reflects the gifting of Paul by the Holy Spirit.

    Acts of the Apostles 20:28, Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has empowered you as overseers, to shepherd the church of God, which He purchased with His own blood.

    Here, “empowered” you as overseers provides the implication of a changed (converted) status, i.e. gifted in administration.

    Acts of the Apostles 27:12, Because the harbor was not suitable for wintering, the majority developed and set forth a decision to put out to sea from there, if somehow they could reach Phoenix, a harbor of Crete, facing southwest and northwest, and spend the winter there.

    The majority developed and set forth the decision to put out to sea. Again, the idea is not just a conceived idea, but a developed plan, involving not only to leave, but where to go and why.

    Romans 4:17, (as it is written, “A FATHER OF MANY NATIONS HAVE I MADE YOU”) in the presence of Him whom he believed, even God, who gives life to the dead and calls into being that which does not exist.

    Here, if we stick with a literal translation of “tithemi” we would go with “designated.” However, that would obscure the linkage to Genesis 17:5 where we find “made.” While the Hebrew word in Genesis also means to put or set, it is translated as “made” over 100 times.

    1 Corinthians 9:18, “What then is my reward? That, when I preach the gospel, I may set forth the gospel without charge, so as not to make full use of my right in the gospel.

    Here, set forth the gospel points to a full presentation, and not an abbreviated feel good alteration.

    1 Corinthians 12:28, And God has empowered in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.

    For the same reason, “empowered” is better here, pointing to the gifting of the Holy Spirit rather than putting someone not specially equipped in a position.

    2 Corinthians 5:19, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has set forth to us the word of reconciliation.

    Set forth better captures the idea of reconciliation being provided through the whole gospel.

    1 Thessalonians 5:9, For God has not designated us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

    Designated works best here, i.e. God has set us apart for salvation.

    1 Timothy 2:7, For this I was designated and empowered as a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

    “Designated and empowered” seems better, conveying both the assignment by God and the gifting of Paul by the Holy Spirit.

    2 Timothy 1:11, for which I was empowered as a preacher and an apostle and a teacher.

    Again, “empowered as” seems a better choice.

    Hebrews 1:2, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He designated as heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

    “Designated as” seems better, because of Christ’s accepted sacrifice.

    1 Peter 2:8, and, “A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE”; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also designated.

    Again, they were designated because of their stumbling over salvation through faith and not works.

    2 Peter 2:6, and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having set them forth as them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter;

    Here, I think, “set them forth as” is better than “made” because the purpose was to provide an illustration.

    In summary, G5087, tithemi, is used about 20 times where the meaning is designate or assign (9 times), empower (5 times), and present or develop or set forth (6 times.)

    One of the key insights arising from this word study is that God did not just assign a person to an office or task, many times He equipped the person,i.e. gifts of the Holy Spirit, so as to empower the person for that task or office.

    God not only put us in Christ, He gave us a holy calling (be ambassadors of Christ with the ministry of reconciliation) and specifically empowered us to accomplish our part of His ministry.

    Praise God
     
  7. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Well, while I do not agree with a few, I find your rendering supporting a view you often rail against and further damaging the view you puff up.

    I’ll attend later to those I might consider needing reconsidered in my considerate opinion. :)
     
  8. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Just to clarify how to came to approach the OP.

    Did you take in the framework of the whole passage context and writing style in your determination?

    Knowing how you determined will aid in our discernment as we have been offered select verses and not context from which to consider in the OP.
     
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Another insight of this study arises from "tithemi's second usage: To change the status of someone for a purpose, either by designating a person for a task or office, or by establishing needed characteristics of a person such that they can complete a task or fulfill the requirements of the office.

    We all start out as children, minors, but reach the age of majority and are declared by law to be adults. We gain the full rights as citizens, able to buy cigarettes, be drafted into the military, and vote. This fulfillment of our citizenship, this right of passage, this change of status falls within the meaning of "tithemi" for citizens (sons) in Apostle Paul's first century culture. Before the age of about 14, boys wore the clothes of a slave, but upon reaching the age of adulthood, they donned the clothes of a full fledged member of the family. And this change of status, this fulfillment of their sonship was called in Greek "huiothesia." This word is a compound, made up of "tithemi" and "huios" which refers generally to the offspring of humans. Here the idea of the compound word is to present and empower the child with their full citizenship as children of their family.

    As spiritual children of God only God knows His children, but upon "huiothesia" our "child of God" status will be manifested, we will don "glorified bodies" and meet Christ in the air.

    As spiritual children of God we have the right to become (at huiothesia) physical children of God. When we are born anew, that gives us the right of fulfillment. God has pledged, with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, to fullfill His promise at Christ's second coming.

    The future manifestation as children of God under the New Covenant is found in Paul's writings 5 times.

    Romans 8:15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of Manifestation (as children of God) by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!”

    Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creation waits for the manifestation as children of God.

    Romans 8:23 And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our manifestation as children of God, the redemption of our body.

    Galatians 4:4 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, 5 so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the manifestation as children of God.

    Ephesians 1:5 He predestined us to our manifestation as children of God through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,

     
    #9 Van, May 16, 2019
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
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