Episcopal Church

Quote:
Episcopalians have never taken up the cause of temperance
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Excuse me? The Church of England founded the temperance movement in the UK.

Further, there is a special communion wine..non-alcoholic,,sold at the liquor stores especialy for church communion. One could drink until the cows come home and not get drunk!!!!

Cheers,

Jim

 

I believe that the sink which drains directly into the ground (not into the sewer) is called a sacrarium, at least in the Catholic tradition (from which most Anglican tradition originates). I'm not really sure of the full theological reasoning, but it does seem much more respectful to dispose of sacred items in the ground rather than in a pipe full of feces and other unpleasantness.

Also, I believe that the water that was being used by this "priest" was likely not holy water, but just water. Again, at least in Catholic understanding, the water itself is not the Eucharist, but the wine is. Though, water is used in the consecration of a valid Eucharist and is mixed with the wine.

Seems that even the Anglican/Episcopalians here are saying that the practices described in relation to the Eucharist are unorthodox in nature.

As for the opinions about drinking alcoholic beverages, that's pure Fundamentalist brainwashing. I should know, I grew up with the same ideas. To this day, my dad (an ordained Baptist minister) looks at me disapprovingly when I drink a beer or a glass of wine. Generally, I avoid drinking near him out of respect, but I no longer buy into this man-made doctrine of absolutely no alcohol. As a personal preference or choice it is completely valid, but it has no basis in Scriptural or Church teaching, anytime, ever, except for at the level of drunkenness, which we probably all agree can be sinful. Understand, that the idea that Christians should not drink any alcohol is later innovation of such groups as Puritans, Quakers and Fundamentalists. The original Church (the Catholic Church) and generally the Protestant churches who still resemble it (e.g. Anglicans, Lutherans) do not teach this and never did. The devil didn't invent beer, Monks did (okay, maybe it was Egyptians, but Monks did make beer!)

:tonofbricks:

-Michael

 

Sorry Jim. I stand corrected. I don't think we (Presbyterian) have been.

Also, I did not know about special communion wine. That is interesting. I know our own church uses grape juice, but I think it is at the call of the elders. I know of one church in Napa Valley that grows its own grapes for use in communion.

Thanks for setting me straight.

 

I for one would like to vouch for the fact that we don't "get drunk on a regular basis". This is quite simply untrue.

 

It makes fundamentalists feel better if they can ridicule non-fundamentalist Christians by using hyperbole and blatant lies. For the most part, it's not all their fault -- many have been raised and brainwashed to believe many non-biblical teachings, which while not "wrong" per se (nothing wrong with NOT drinking... you can live without ever drinking alcohol and would probably be better off); however, they have nothing to do with Christian teaching, they are codes of preferred conduct masked in man-made doctrine.

Growing up as a Baptist, I had the mental image that Catholics were drunk off their rocker every weekend and that they got drunk at church! I also thought that Catholics worshipped on Saturdays, worshipped statues of Mary, worshipped priests and got drunk from communion wine. These things I learned directly or indirectly from Baptist sermons.

Do you know what bad things I've heard about Baptists in Catholic churches? None. Ever.... same goes for all protestants. Our doors are open to all. The Catholic Church teaches of the truth and the hope is that when truth is presented, non-truth will become clear.

-Michael

 

Two questions, what is the reason for praying to Saints or Mary?

Is it true only the Priest has a Bible in service?

 

The communion of the saints is not an innovation, but rather, a practice and belief that dates from apostolic times. We believe that the Body of Christ, which is all of Christianity both present and past, is connected. We are connected to Christians here on earth and in heaven, and we may choose to ask them to intercede for us in prayer. Much as I ask my brothers and sisters in Christ who are present in church to pray for me (every single week!), I also may choose to ask those who are with the Lord to pray for me. Before anyone goes down that path, we don't believe in praying to the "dead" since we certainly believe that Christians who have gone on to be with God are not dead, they are more alive than we could imagine here on earth and are much closer to God than us, thus, asking for their prayer cannot be a bad thing. However, it is a misnomer and an intentional deception to suggest that petitions to saints are somehow above prayers to God, as they are not. They are "additional" prayers. Just as you might pray to God on your own, then ask a friend to pray for the same thing, we asks saints to pray for the same thing.

The better question is, why do Fundamentalists deny the communion of saints? It is a tenet of Christianity that was one of many things deleted when the name "Christian" was usurped.

No, it is not. The laity (regular members of the congregation) read aloud Scripture at every single mass held anywhere in the world. Not only that, but we read the same Scriptures so that we are all studying the same passages on the same day and in the course of 3 years, almost the entire Bible is read aloud in mass (services). A layperson reads the Old Testament reading, then another leads us in singing the Psalms (as they were originally intended to be heard), then another layperson reads to us one of the Epistles of the New Testament, and then the priest or a deacon comes up to read the Gospel reading, which we reverence with respect by standing while it is read. All of these Scripture readings are written down in the order that we read them in books called Missals, which many people in the congregation bring with them to read along, or of they so choose, a Bible to read along. In our services, we procliam the Word of God as such and reverence it with an entire 1/2 of the mass.

The intentional deception that the Catholic Church somehow "censors" the faithful from owning or reading the Bible or discourages it in some way is patently false. Anyone who teaches this is deliberately deceiving. Some will bring up the history of burning Bibles, which to some extent is true, though exaggerated. The burned Bibles were horrific, terrible translations which contained so many errors that they were not reliable as the Word of God. They were replaced with much more reliable translations in Latin (a language that most people did read and speak back then) and later English when it became the more common language. In either case, the idea that Catholics aren't supposed to read the Bible on their own is asinine and it is straight out of Boetner fairy-tale land. I currently own about 9 or 10 Bibles of various versions for various purposes (e.g. bible study, devotion, portability).

Thank you for your questions. Feel free to PM me or begin another thread about Catholic beliefs if I can be of assistance in clearing anything up.

God bless,

Michael

 

Where did I insult you?

If you have a problem, take it to PM.

 

DonnA, this isn't the first time we've had a thread on Episcopalians - try here for example and follow the links I've provided; you'll find there are as many varieties of Episcopalians as there are Baptists.

 

If you're PC(USA), the Book of Order stipulates that when fermented wine is served for communion, unfermented grape juice must also be made available and pointed out. The first church I served at did this; simply putting the grape juice on the outside ring of the carrier and the wine on the inside. For intinction, we just used grape juice.

 

But you didn't ask a question. You made a condemnation thinly disguised as a question. To make it worse it was a condemnation based on second and third hand information. Information that is likely colored by personal issue.

BTW where did any of us call you a liar?

 

Thanks for the response, I have always wondered those things. I guess it's like any Church, I see people with bibles where the binder is still not broken on it.

To answer your questions, I guess the RCC already had the idea so it wouldn't of been original :laugh: :laugh: :wavey:

Do you ever pray from the heart or do you always recite the prepared prayers?

 

I generally pray ad-hoc, from the heart. Most of the time if I'm praying with Catholics, we begin prayer with our specific intentions (from the heart), and then we frequently end with the Our Father (The Lord's Prayer) and sometimes a Hail Mary will be thrown in if someone starts it. Also sometimes we do call upon saints to pray for us when praying as a group. It goes something like this, someone says "Saint Anthony" and the group responds in unison, "Pray for us."... then someone calls the name of another saint, say, "Saint Michael the Archangel" and again, we respond, "Pray for us." in unison.

Prayers in church (group prayers) take on a specific form. Each of the opening and closing prayers are a part of the Missal and relate specifically to the holy day or the Scripture being read that day, etc.

God bless,

Michael