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Eternal security and unpardonable sin

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Dr. Timo, Feb 23, 2009.

  1. thegospelgeek

    thegospelgeek New Member

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    You have misunderstood what I am saying. I never said beleiving in Christ was a lie. I am saying the oposite.

    You are actually demonstrating my point exactly. You and i are not differing on the salvation of the soul in question, but rather debating what we call the state of the soul of the person. In your case it is never know if one is saved or not, until they have endured. If they fail to do so, they were never saved no matter the fruit they bore.
     
  2. drfuss

    drfuss New Member

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    drfuss: Yes, the difference is how we catagorize those who do not endure to the end, i.e. different definitions and terminology.

    Note that Stanley is very different in that he believes a True Christian can stop believing (may not endure to the end) and is still saved in his unbelieving state. This is more that different definitions and terminology from other ES and classic Arminian beliefs. This says unbelievers can get to heaven if they once believed and then stopped believing.
     
  3. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    That's one possibility. The other is the "father of lies" has him believing his experience was never genuine, even though it was. Since he was a pastor for 15 years, the latter is more likely.
     
    #103 webdog, Mar 3, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 3, 2009
  4. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    I don't think Charles Stanley should even be in this discussion. His view is not orthodox, as he believes a true believer whe dies in a state of unbelief (or sin) will spend the 1000 year millenial in hell. This heresy known as Millenial Exclusion (Stanley, Watchman Nee, Chitwood all hold to this view) is not the prevalent view of those who hold to ES.
     
  5. thegospelgeek

    thegospelgeek New Member

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    Webdog,

    Glad your back. Did you see my question about enduring? How do you reconcile this with your belief that one can stop beleiving and still be saved?
     
  6. thegospelgeek

    thegospelgeek New Member

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    Amy, for arguments sake, let's say you have convinced me. Nothing has really changed except now I think those who have shipwrecked their faith were never really saved. It doesn't change anything that is, just what I call it.
     
  7. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Which passage, the one in Matthew?

    I found this interesting in regards to enduring. This is shared with the Mormons as well (pertaining to justification)
    http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/basic/gospel/enduring_end_eom.htm
     
  8. thegospelgeek

    thegospelgeek New Member

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    I was thinking more in line with John's letters to the churches in Rev. added But either will do.
     
    #108 thegospelgeek, Mar 3, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 3, 2009
  9. drfuss

    drfuss New Member

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    drfuss: Charles Stanley continues to be in this discussion because Dr Timo, who started this thread, indicated he believes just like Charles Stanley, see posts #59 & #74. I said Stanley represents a small minority of ES believers, but Dr Timo indicated there were many who believed like Stanley. Dr Timo has been promoting Stanley's belief on this thread.
     
  10. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Maybe Dr. Timo hasn't studied Stanley's eschatology, then. If he agrees with him, he will eventually be banned like the rest of the ME'ers
     
  11. thegospelgeek

    thegospelgeek New Member

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    I know this is not the topic but, how can any sane person come up with this?
     
  12. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    In context, the "enduring" in Matthew is referring to the Great Tribulation, and not giving in to the antichrist.

    In Revelation 2, the benefits or enduring are to rule with Christ.

    Neither speak of justification in regards to holding on to it.
     
  13. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    The same way any false doctrine is, I guess.
     
  14. Dr. Timo

    Dr. Timo New Member

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    I don't believe this is true. What is your proof of this!!!:wavey: :jesus:
     
  15. Dr. Timo

    Dr. Timo New Member

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    I will check this out from the source as I am in touch (no pun intended) with Dr. Stanley. I don't know where your information came from but you can be sure it is not true. Dr. Stanley does not believe a saved person will spend anytime in hell under any circumstances.:laugh: :jesus:
     
  16. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Ok, just for arguments sake, here's what I'll do if I've convinced you.......

    [​IMG] <-----dancing baptist :eek:
     
  17. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    I have heard people claim that Charles Stanley is a Millennial Exclusionist, but I have never seen proof of it. But I do know that Dr. Stanley believes that a person can be saved, stop believing, reject Christ, and still go to heaven. I know because I have a book he wrote where he said that very thing.
     
  18. Dr. Timo

    Dr. Timo New Member

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    That's a good one Amy!!!:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :jesus:
     
  19. Dr. Timo

    Dr. Timo New Member

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    That's a good one Amy!!!:laugh 1_grouphug:
     
  20. thegospelgeek

    thegospelgeek New Member

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    OK,

    Just a recap of the thread, correct me if I'm wrong.

    The topic is why do the subjects of Eternal Security and unpardonable sin keep coming up in studies, classes, etc.

    There are 4 different main views and thousnands of variations.

    1. Amy is of the mindset that if one truly beleives they will never stop beleiving.
    2. Webdog and Dr. Timo beleive one can stop beleiving yet are still saved.
    3. Myself and drfuss feel one forfiets their salvation when one stops beleiving
    4. There is the Weslyan Arminian veiw that one can continue in sin and be unrepentant, thus forfieting their salvation. So far we have no one defending this view.

    I see similarities in Amy's view and my own, yet they differ somewhat. I see large differences in my view and that of webdog and Dr. Timo
     
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