Eternal security gone to far?

Isn't that amazing? None of the men whom God used to canonize the New Testament and formalize the doctrine of the Trinity were saved!

 

It was the belief of SOME the Reformers that once a person is saved, he can not be lost. There were some very important exceptions: Martin Luther, for example .

 

Somebody is having those nightmares again and confusing them with reality.

 

Craig, not surprisingly, you failed to deal with Romans 4. Not that you can...

 

I'll take the plain teachings over the reformers any day.

 

natters, how do you not understand? It isn't belief in Christ AND something else. Please tell me you understand this. It is the KIND of belief in Christ. The same is true in James 2. It isn't something that accompanies faith, it is the kind of faith. Good grief.

Terry, this is actual one point that the reformers got right.

 

Your little hypothetical means nothing. The only thing that matters is the testimony of Scripture. You can't deal with it. Romans 4 is explicit about the kind of faith that saves.

Abraham DID NOT WAIVER AT THE PROMISE OF GOD. I am saved, I don't have to twist that to mean anything other than what Paul said. You do.

 

Natters' "hypothetical" means nothing? Or you didn't want to address it?

Salvation is by faith in Christ. You don't have to get all the theology right to be saved. If you insist that in order to have REAL salvation Christians must believe eternal security then you base salvation NOT on simple faith but on a WORK (believing a certain way).

 

I am not suggesting that one must have perfect theology. However, some beliefs would indicate a false "conversion". If a person believes in an unscripural view of Christ, he is not saved.

 

The "scriptural" Christ in whom one must believe is that savior that was born of a virgin, died for sins, rose bodily, and will come again.

Anyone who accepts Him as savior is saved. Views on eternal security, eschatology etc do not preclude salvation

 

The eternal security thing has gone too far there. People may get saved once and not believe in eternal security so they get "saved" again and again but it really happened the first time. The second part that says that if someone doesn't believe or understand the Gospel. Understanding can mean many things I personally say that a person who is too young to understand is not lost but if a person doesn't believe the gospel they are lost (John 3:18)

 

natters, I don't know what question you are referring to. I just know that I have provided the Scripture. You have ignored it in favor of your little stories.

Again, only an unwaivering kind of faith will save. Disagree all you like, Paul said it, not me.

 

Romans 4? Yeah Abraham never waivered! He went to Egypt, he lied at about Sarah being his sister..

David (Romans 4) didn't waiver either - he just committed adultery.

What about Simon Peter? Did he waiver? No certainly not! He only denied Christ 3 times.

I guess we won't see any of these washed up waivering unbelievers in heaven. The only 2 people there will be Paul and Daniel David.

 

Laugh all you want. I have the testimony of Scripture over your interpretation of stories. Hmmmm, I wonder what is more important.

Chuckles, just so I know you can read and understand Romans 4, please post where it talks about Abraham not waivering. Then, everyone can see your little stand-up routine is really just bad comedy.

 

DD,

Romans 4:20.

You don't even realize that you are espousing a works-based salvation!! If you trust Christ as savior you have NOT YET done enough! You must believe this and this too! Have you ever considered joining the KJVO cult? They make similar silly presumptions!

Every human alive has fallen, failed, or "waivered" at one point or another. Are you really asserting that only those who believe in eternal security are saved? All Arminians are hell-bound?

You may be trying to capture the confidence of Paul - but remember that he was under inspiration and you are not!

In case you haven't picked this up already - humans are not an impressive lot. There are many simple souls out there; many with very very limited intellectual abilities. You cannot expect a simple child to know precisely the particulars of his relationship with his Mommy. Neither must the believer be able to define every aspect of his having been saved.

 

I am not espousing works based theology. I recommend studying theology a little bit more. Actually, in your case, a lot more.

It is the kind of faith that will justify a person.

Here is Paul's argument:

1. Abraham and David were justified the exact same way.
2. Justification requires faith alone in the God who justifies.
3. The kind of faith must not waiver.

What you fail to grasp is that those who are saved will persevere in faith.

I have denied your silly accusation that one must have perfect theology. However, if one believes that God can fail, that person lacks saving faith and will be judged guilty of works.