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Featured Eternal Security the Acid test

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by The Biblicist, Feb 11, 2012.

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  1. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

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    You are willing to deny the truth for your manufactured beliefs. I GAVE YOU SCRIPTURE TELLING YOU THAT JESUS CAME FOR THE LOST SHEEP OF ISRAEL, AND NOT TO THE GENTILES. You bring up a couple of non-Jews whose faith was great, and you think that disqualifies the word of God! In addition, you bring up something even before the Law of Moses was in place thousands of years before Jesus came to earth! There is no excuse for your willful rejection of the Truth.
    We were talking about when Jesus came to earth BEFORE he was lifted up, and before Peter’s vision. You are definitely a snare to those less knowledgeable. There is no excuse for this kind of rejection of the Truth.

    [Personal attack removed]
     
    #81 Moriah, Feb 13, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 13, 2012
  2. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

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    EVERYONE WHO HAS POSTED IN THIS THREAD OF YOURS DEALT WITH CONTEXT. You are in a strange place all by yourself.
     
    #82 Moriah, Feb 13, 2012
  3. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Can you quote from any post on this thread where they directly quoted and dealt with a single word of this text in any kind of expository fashion??? I await!
     
    #83 The Biblicist, Feb 13, 2012
  4. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    I never rejected there was a preeminice of the Jew over the Gentile. I never rejected that before the resurrection there was a restricted mission to the Jews.

    However, you made the assertion that no Gentile could be reconciled before the cross, when in fact there are scores of gentiles that have been justified, forgiven and saved before the cross a few which I named.

    Acts 10 was simply the first gentiles that the church under the Great Commission after the church was immersed in the Spirit had gone to (Acts 11:15-16). That does not mean that Jesus had not saved scores of Gentiles prior to giving the Great Commission to the church.

    You are the one trying to repudiate the scriptures that clearly and specifically name Gentiles who had been saved prior to the cross. So you interpretation is false. Gentiles were saved before the cross. Gentiles were saved in the ministry of Christ. The house of Corneilius was merely the first gentile converts AFTER the giving of the Great Commission and sending of the Holy Spirit.
     
    #84 The Biblicist, Feb 13, 2012
  5. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Jn. 6:39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.



    Gentlemen and Gentlewomen,

    Jesus explicitly and clearly said that "OF ALL" that the Father gave him, that he would LOSE NONE"

    This is the Father's will! This is not the REVEALED will of God but the DETERMINATE will of God because ALL that the Father gives Christ DO IN FACT COME TO HIM. ALL given EQUALS All that come and the REVEALED will can do neither!

    Therefore it is the DETERMINATE will of the Father that "OF ALL" the Father gives him that "I SHALL LOSE NOTHING."

    Jesus is speaking from the view point as the Savior. It is His job to see to it that "OF ALL" the Father gave him that "I" shall lose none.


    CONCLUSION: All who teach that even ONE that came to him became lost is directly contradicting these words of Christ as they are saying "I shall lose SOME" when he says "NOTHING" and they are saying SOME will not be raised up to eternal life but he says "it shall be raised up at the last day" to eternal life.
     
    #85 The Biblicist, Feb 13, 2012
  6. DaChaser1

    DaChaser1 New Member

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    NO Calvinist, such as the way I define the theology, even believes in this 'dterminist' doctrine that you speak of!

    man freely decides to reject the offers of Jesus to save them, that is their very "nature!"

    Thank God that he determines in the Ultimate sense salvation, or else NONE would ever get saved!
     
    #86 DaChaser1, Feb 13, 2012
  7. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

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    No one here should ever take you seriously again. You twist the scripture, so no doubt you will twist what I say...you even twist your own words!
     
    #87 Moriah, Feb 13, 2012
  8. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    To which, I agree.

    So would you say that someone who has had all the appearance of salvation, including fruits of the Spirit, then falls away, was not saved to begin with?
     
    #88 Amy.G, Feb 13, 2012
  9. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

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    Yes you did. You reject that Jesus came for the Jews first.
    You need to stop making up things I did not say.
    You say Jesus saved “scores” of Gentiles prior to Peter’s vision is an addition to the Word of God! THAT PROVES YOU DENY JESUS CAME FOR THE JEWS FIRST WHILE HE WAS ON EARTH.
    You show you do not like God’s Word! Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans.
     
    #89 Moriah, Feb 13, 2012
  10. DaChaser1

    DaChaser1 New Member

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    I agree with what you are stating as regards to IF we truely held to being saved by grace alone of God, by faith alone appopiated by us...

    We would be eternally secured, as its God who is at work in and thru us, do make /confirming us into image of Christ, and the HS sealing us is earnest pledge thatwe will ALL receive our full inheritance one day!

    I was regulating this discussion though to side issue, am NOT willing to say that Arminianist preach/teach false Gosepl/jesus as regards to salavation as the intial point, just believe they misunderstand its full raimifications of holding to possible loss of salvation!
     
    #90 DaChaser1, Feb 13, 2012
  11. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Why would a person who openly admits that he "is dead to sin," not believe in eternal security? If you are dead to sin, as you have previously explained, even to the point of sinlessness, what would cause you to lose your salvation?

    John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
    --Are you one of His sheep? Do you hear His voice? Does He know you?

    John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
    --If so, then do you believe that He has given you eternal life; and that you shall never perish, and that nothing shall be able to pluck you out of his hand. Why would you deny eternal security if you believe in verse 27, that you are one of His sheep, or is there some doubt there?

    John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
    --Jesus emphasizes this truth. He says that His Father is greater than all and no man is able to pluck His sheep out of His Father's hand. Do you believe this promise of Jesus? Do you believe it applies to you?

    You did say "I am crucified with Christ," didn't you? That you were "dead to sin"?
     
    #91 DHK, Feb 13, 2012
  12. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Well, I do not know of anyone who is "dead to sin", but as believers, we'd best be dead to "the love of sin".
     
    #92 convicted1, Feb 13, 2012
  13. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    In Matthew 12 Jesus describes those who REFORM their lives but have never been TRANSFORMED by the Spirit of God. Later, seven worse demons come in and his last estate is worse than his first.

    In Matthew 23 Jesus talks about those who are "twofold" more child of hell than their disciplers. They think they are saved but really still lost and thus in worse shape.

    In 1 John 2:19 John describes those who depart from Christ but clearly states they never were true believers or else they "WOULD NO DOUBT HAVE CONTINUED" but were like those false professors in John 8:29-45 and like the tares in Matthew 13.

    Peter talks about pigs still being pigs and dogs still be dogs by nature and thus returning to their pig and dog nature lifestyle.

    Salvation is not saying a right prayer, walking an aisle, or coming to a mouners bench. The saved may do some or all of these things, but salvation is God actually CHANGING YOU from the inside out and then NEVER LEAVING YOU or FORSAKING YOU until he has finished His job saving you.
     
    #93 The Biblicist, Feb 13, 2012
  14. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    (((((AMEN!!!!!))))):jesus::godisgood::jesus: :godisgood:
     
    #94 convicted1, Feb 13, 2012
  15. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

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    Why do you have such a hard time following what people say? I have already told you that I believe people can have eternal security! That does not mean that no one can draw back! DO YOU NOT CARE THAT GOD SAYS NOW THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH: BUT IF ANY MAN DRAW BACK, MY SOUL SHALL HAVE NO PLEASURE IN HIM? That is what God says! Do you think God is saying that for no reason?
    Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. Hebrews 10:38.

    Why do you not answer questions! Tell us who these people are. Is the people who are in 2 Peter 1:10 able to fall or not? What are they falling from?!

    see 2 Peter 1:10. Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall,

    Tell us, what do the lamp and the oil signify? Did they not have light and oil at one time? What happened to it?

    Matthew 25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

    Tell us, what does it mean to fall from grace?

    Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. Galatians 5:4. Here Paul tells us we could fall from grace.

    Answer us, what does it mean to not drift away?

    We must pay more careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away. Hebrews 2:1. Here Paul tells us how to not drift away.

    What does it mean not to draw back?

    Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. Hebrews 10:38. Here Jesus talks about not to draw back.

    Tell us what it means to make many defiled.

    Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled; Hebrews 12:15. Here Paul warns that one can cause trouble and cause many to be defiled.
    Tell us, was Jesus ever formed in them? What happened that they needed him formed in them AGAIN?

    My dear children, for whom I am again in the pains of childbirth until Christ is formed in you, Galatians 4:19. The Galatians needed Paul to go through again what he had already done with them before, and that is to form Christ in them again.

    If they escaped living in error, what happened to them now?

    Read 2 Peter 2:18, wicked men can even mouth empty, boastful words, and, by appealings to the lustful desires of sinful human nature, they can even entice people who are just escaping living in error.

    Answer us, why is it dreadful for God's people to fall into the hands of the living God?

    Hebrews 10:30, 31 For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," and again, "The Lord will judge his people." It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

    YOU NEED TO START ANSWERING QUESTIONS, INSTEAD OF ASKING THE SAME QUESTIONS THAT I ALREADY GAVE ANSWERS TO.
    Jesus saved me. I obey Jesus’ words, and I take all the warnings. Do you believe Jesus’ warnings? Yes or no?
    Not everyone takes God’s warnings seriously, they may think they cannot do anything to harm their salvation, as you teach them!
    No one is able to pluck me out of my Father’s hand. That goes for people like you who have tried to tell me Jesus did not save me. YOU cannot pluck me out of my Father’s hand, no matter how much you desire to.
    God does not force us to love Him and stay with Him!
    Not everyone is like me, now are they? You do not believe a person can fall from grace, even though the scriptures say a person can. You do not believe a person can be dead to sin, even though the scriptures tell us to be. So you tell me, can you fall from grace? If you do not take Jesus' words seriously, do you think that you could be harming your salvation?
     
    #95 Moriah, Feb 13, 2012
  16. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Amy,

    The Scriptures clearly affirm the doctrine of eternal security right along side of the need of subjective affirmation of that doctrine to our experience. That is, the scriptures call on us to "make our calling and election sure" in regard to our own self through identifying with the many Biblical evidenes of that doctrine in regard to the elect.

    So there is always this tension doctrinal truth and continuing personal experience of that truth.

    Second, the true born again child of God has a NEW NATURE and the INDWELLING SPIRIT abiding within them neither of which can deny themselves. The new nature cannot disavow Christ simply because it is created in true righteousness and holiness. The Indwelling Spirit always bears witness to Christ and never will turn against Christ. The will of the SAVED person is under the power of God so that Paul says "For it is God that WORKETH IN YOU both to WILL and TO DO of His good pleasure" and so God will never work in you the "will" to reject Jesus Christ.

    Third, True children of God cannot get away with unrepentant sin for God chasteneth EVERY SON and if you receive not chastening, if you can get away with sin it is because you are not and never were a true child of God but an "illigitimate" child, a false professor, a tare, a REFORMER, a child of Satan religiously annointed.

    Fouth, sin is permitted in the life of the believer and is used in the life of the believer to strengthen them against sin and to build character and to grow them as God "works ALL THINGS" ultimately for their good. God purposely turned Job over to Satan knowing full well what would happen and how God would ulitmately work it TWICE the good for Job than at the beginning.
     
    #96 The Biblicist, Feb 13, 2012
  17. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Boy you're butter today....on a roll!!

    I thank Him for His Grace. I am secure in Him and knowing His hands are protecting me. It would be a miserable life if one had to go around worrying if they could lose their salvation. Not me. I'm His, lock, stock, and barrell.
     
    #97 convicted1, Feb 13, 2012
  18. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    I agree and I didn't mean to imply that I think we can lose our salvation. But I have to admit some confusion when I see someone fall away. I'm just trying to understand what is happening to these people. Maybe only God knows as He is the only one who can see the heart.

    Your posts were good. :thumbs:
     
    #98 Amy.G, Feb 13, 2012
  19. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    We can only see from the external viewpoint. Most REFORMED religious persons are devoutly committed to their reformation. Hence, the sincerety is there along with devout external confirmations attempting to match what they read from the Bible and see from those around them and determine to conform to.

    It is sort of like a person who cannot swim casting themselves into the water and thrashing about intensly trying to stay afloat. They are intensly excited about swimming and go for it. However, in time they just weary themselves because they are trying to do something contrary to their nature and yet they think they have experienced the real thing but it does not work and so eventually they give up. The arm of the flesh shall fail you.

    This is the same experience of a true child of God when operating after the flesh - it is internally a wretched experience and sooner or later they too weary themselves and give up, BUT, God is inside them and HE DOES NOT GIVE UP but actually brought them to the very point to help them by showing them "without me ye can do nothing."
     
    #99 The Biblicist, Feb 13, 2012
  20. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    ALL that are given EQUAL All that Come and ALL that are Given EQUAL All that are raised up!

    Hence, the promise to be raised up cannot include the lost or there would be MORE promised to be raised then given but that is not the case.


    Therefore, this is a clear and explicit necessary inference of EFFECTUAL CALLING. Because ALL that are given EQUAL All that come and NONE given are lost - that is EFFECTUAL giving and EFFECTUAL coming and EFFECTUAL glorification "OF ALL" that were given.


    Hence, NO MAN CAN COME except the Father draw him AND "HIM will I raise up in the last day" - Jn. 6:44

    ALL GIVEN are ALL WHO COME and NONE COME but those DRAWN and ALL DRAWN will be raised up at last day EQUAL to all given shall come and shall be raised up at last day.

    No Calvinism here - just plain scripture and necessary inference of what Christ explicitly states and demands.
     
    #100 The Biblicist, Feb 13, 2012
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