ever heard of anything like this?

Really,SBC? What about when people say...if it reaches those for Christ,how can it be wrong? Do you see anything wrong with this philosophy????

 

I think Paul might have an answer for that, Molly:

Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law, but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law. To the weak I have become weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. I do this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.


For the intellectual and educated, perhaps a very sober, intellectual sermon is quite enough. But for others, the Word of God is best communicated by other means. Let the Spirit lead and please don't judge the other servants of God. Let Him lead them, OK?

 

Or loins girt about with truth.

 

I've heard those verses quoted a lot for support of a lot of things. All things to all men does not mean that anything is okay. I'm not *judging*,as you say this pastor....I'm making an accurate judgment on his actions while preaching...there is a difference. If he wants to do that,then it is fine for him and his church,it is not my job or anyone else's to determine church policy(I'm not doing that,by the way)....but I do know what I would not appreciate from a pastor/teacher and this kind of stuff would not be fitting for me..... I'll put it that way,okay?

Thanks and In Christ's Love,

Molly

 

I am just shocked to see people still try to use these verses for the "if people get saved" argument. Consider the previous and next chapter. Classic.

 

What makes you think he isn't?

 

http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=58;t=000159

 

You would have to point me to a specific instance where someone said "if it reaches people for Christ (meaning anything goes), how can it be wrong?" Again you are arguing against a straw man. I have never read or heard someone suggest ANYTHING goes as long as people are saved.

And I thought he was Jack Hyles or Tom Neal.

 

And...I thought SBC was Rick Warren....!

 

Honestly,SBC,I do not know where the exact quotes are,but it has been stated quite a bit in regards to contemporary music,preaching styles,etc...I've discussed it many times. maybe you haven't noticed since you are okay with that philosophy.

 

Using various preaching styles and using contemporary music are many steps removed from "anything goes."

 

These styes are mentioned and when it is challenged,the excuse is if it reaches others,then it is fine(i do realize some of these are preferential type things,but the philosophy is what concerns me....I don't think that kind of pragmatic thinking is a reason for doing something,esp involving the church and such serious issues as seeker sensitive lowering the standards of God's Word to attract. This viloates many things in scripture imo.
molly

Oh,one more thing...I'm not saying this particular guy is doing this,I am just speaking in general....I'm sorry about my typos...I'm holding baby and typing right handed(I'm left handed!)

 

Actually it is not an "excuse" as you assert. It is simply a difference of opinion. The reasoning behind such an opinion is NOT "anything goes". There has simply been no evidence offered to suggest these preference violate Scripture.

I have never heard or read of someone saying: it does not matter what you do, as long as people are being saved. What I have heard is: as long as something is not violating a biblical teaching or principle, it can be used. Big difference.

That is why I repeat, this is an issue of interpretation and application and not an issue of right vs wrong.

 

What makes you think he isn't? </font>[/QUOTE]Can I answer that? Please? Please?


I used to go to Pastor Mac Arthurs church in the Valley before I moved up north. So, I think I can answer this, so could Helen, since she worked with him.

He's very mild mannered and unassuming.

He doesn't look anything like you, He's thinner, and a bit older than you and your hair color is dark, where his is greying.

Not saying that you might not have similar ideas on some things, but John MacArther is so humble, so mild mannered, and you are a bit on the aggressive side, (no offense intended whatsoever)

He is one of the great Pastors, I've had the priviledge of learning from in person.

Love in Christ,
Laurenda

Grace Community Church (where we used to attend)

 

He is mild mannered and humble(we have met him on a few occassions)but he is also very bold and aggressive against things that are wrong...I've read a lot of his books..he states the facts very plainly,not worrying about being offensive. He critizizes(how do you spell this word???)faulty doctrine and even challenges the thinking of many so called evangelical churches...we've heard him speak at a pastor's sheperding conference and the whole thing was in opposition to the contempo movement and seeker sensitive church(I heard it myself).But,I promise my husband and I had problem with some of that before we heard him speak...it did confirm some things to us,though.

I have not attended his church,so I can only speak about what I know.

Molly

 

Hi Molly, "criticizes" is spelled this way.

And that may be why I see him differently. I've only seen him speak from the pulpit, and that was 10 almost 11 years ago. I guess if he was posting here I might think of him differently. Thank you for posting that, you gave me a whole different perspective to think about.

You got to admit though, they do look different.

Laurenda

 

You're right about that!

 

Molly,

I want to remind you that much of what Johnny Mac writes is his own personal views on certain subject matters. He is a very humble man and yes he is very bold in what he believes about certain subjects. I just encourage you not to fall prey to the idea that b/c MacArthur writes it that he is absolutely right.

For instance, much of what he argues against in the seeker movement are straw men he and others have constructed. I have listened and read his latest works on the subject and I found little with which I disagree. He is arguing against extremes and straw men. Don't be guilty of lumping everyone into the same category.

Another for instance would be his positions against the Charismatic movement. Much of what he writes is great, but he also fights at times against straw men. Charismatic Chaos is a good book but most would agree that he goes a bit too far in his arguments.

The same is true of his exegesis. Any good NT student or scholar (who listens to Mac) would tell you that his exegesis at times is a bit overworked (for instance he takes verb tenses well beyond their normal use at times).

MacArthur has also changed some of his own theological positions in recent years. All of this to say that MacArthur is great, but he is not absolutely right on all matters (by his own admission).

Most writers write in such a way to provoke a response. MacArthur is a prime example. As with any author, what he writes must be evaluated in light of the text and in light of what other men of God believe as well. Balance is the key.

MacArthur is awesome. I love to read him and listen to him. But he is a human. God has blessed him and he leads a great church, but his model of church is not the only model. It has some weaknesses (most of their growth is strictly transfer growth) and it has some strengths. What we realize quickly is that God uses all types of people and philosophies of ministry to make disciples. We can learn something from each.

Just some thoughts.

 

Okay,I can agree he is human.

A funny story...my husband and I were teaching a precept study to teens once on 1 Peter...we had our oldest daughter sit in and listen to our class(she was about 6 or 7 at the time-she is 10 now) That night when we were putting her to bed we were asking her questions about the lesson we taught that night...she got all the answers right until we got to the question...."Who wrote 1st Peter" she exclaimed loudly,"That's easy,John MacArthur!!!"(and she was dead serious!) We knew then that we talked about him way too much then and put much emphasis on his views.

But,we hold to what he says that is biblical....there are a few times that we have wondered about a few things,but honestly...not much.

 

But it is you who uses the truly "outdated" means of God's interaction under the OT to justify your exhibitions and mountebank-ish methods of "drawing" people to the Gospel. The verses I quoted indubitably establish that God has changed His manner in communicating with the world today.

I'm still waiting for a truly thought-out and Scriptural justification of a man stabbing himself in the chest to prove a point.

Alas! I wait in vain!