EVERYTHING that ever happens God brings to pass.

I take it Bob Snow has no proof for his "quote" in the OP.

He also has no context for his proof-text in the OP.

Thus, it must be concluded that the thread is designed as a rant with no proof of such a statement ever being made, and just simply a belligerency against Calvinism, with no premise.

 

No doubt. :laugh:

 

Love It's a beautiful thing.
MB

 

Do you really not know who Jonathan Edwards is?

Or are you trying to make some point about people owning slaves not being qualified to speak on theological matters?

 

I know of him as being a preacher and a slave owner if that is the guy you are talking about. I think he is given credit for what was called the great awakening, but I could be wrong as I have never read anything he has written as far as I know.
My point was, if this is who you are talking about, and if he could not see the problem with being a slave owner then I don't think I can accept much he as to say on issues that are greatly debatable as his judgment was clearly flawed.

 

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Thanks so much MB, some of us feel that this (Love) is God's primary motivation, not the seeking of glory.

 

Tis like feeding the monkeys (shrewd):tongue3:

 

Couple thoughts, can you answer p4t? If not, you are being a little disingenuous ....the other thought I have is that I would like to understand your [and crabtownboys] theology a little better....either God is sovereign in all things or he isn't.....and if He isn't, then Satan must be....choose your weapon

As a pastor this issue has very practical use for me, and its something I had to figure [and I'm still figuring out] out over time....you see, every time I had to visit someone who was sick, someone who lost a loved one, someone who lost a job, got divorced, had a miscarriage, etc etc--what was I supposed to tell them? Sorry evidently you are a sinner and God hates you! Or should I say, you know the devil had his day today.....better luck next time! Or should I go the way of psychology and say well the big potatoes rise to the top on a rough road [I heard Robert Schuller say that once].....I had to agonize because people get disturbed thoughts about life and who really is in control of life and this world.....I personally came "to the end of myself" when my son went into the hospital at 2 yrs old, suddenly covered with bruises all over his little body.....doctors said he's either in the last stage of leukemia, or it could be a rare disorder that happens once in a while called HTP [I may have the abbreviation wrong-- I always have to ask my wife and she's not here!][been 17 yrs ago]....as I was in prayer, I realized that I had absolutely no control over the situation, even if I had all the money, best doctors, etc etc.....I said Lord, I give you my son, if you want him, I can't stop you...I realized God WAS in control of this situation....I felt a peace I have rarely felt..Scriptures came to my mind--esp Romans 8:28....long story short, God healed my little boy and he's 19 now and always been healthy.....God is sovereign, whether He had taken my son or not....God is in control, good and bad, He is no monster, He is reality and the ultimate power in a world where evil does exist.....but I remind you of an old saying by Martin Luther: the devil is the devil, but he's God's devil.....So in answer to my own dilemma, I as a pastor strive to get peoples minds off their problems and on to Jesus Christ.....now my question to you--if God isn't in control when a bad thing happens, who is?? What would keep that entity from completely taking over?? No way you can answer that question without making God a monster [by your reasoning]....

 

Here is the link.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1758721&postcount=92

I believe Robert is speaking of this line;

 

I would disagree with Luke that everything that happens God brings to pass.

Jer 19:5 They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:

Jer 7:31 And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart.

Jer 32:35 And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

These three verses are speaking of sacrificing infants to idols. It seems abundantly clear that God did not command these events to happen. He knew of them, and he allowed them, but they were not his idea, they did not come into his mind or heart.

 

God gave man dominion over this world. We have the power of life and death in our mouths. God is not in control of everything, He gave that to us. Satan came to kill, steal, and destroy. Either God or Satan will work through us in every mans lifetime. As Christians this is why we are given charge to "destroy the works of the devil" doing the works that Jesus did and greater works we will do. If you believe.

 

Another "edifying" post. :sleep:

 

God did not "kill" Christ. Jesus offered Himself. No one took His life. He laid it down freely.

 

That's a great testimony and God is a great teacher.

He brought me through some times showing me how He and He alone is ultimately in control of all things, both good and bad.

Funny (not really) how some only trust that He is in control of all the good things, but that he is not giving to us also the bad things. He is Sovereign in all things.

- Peace

 

God is not in control of everything? We are going to do greater works then Jesus? (I know the passage) but it is not speaking of what you are speaking of. Let me know when you raise the dead, walk on water, and turn water into wine.
We can no more destroy the works of the devil then walk on water. That is the work of the cross not us.
God is always in total control. If he wasn't everything would end as nothing is self sustaining.

 

One day you might believe.

 

I already do.

 

If Edwards said that everything, every rape, every murder, every evil action is caused by God ... and I believe you have said thus, and Piper has said thus, then yes anyone who says this is making God a monster. If God is the cause of all then no one can be guilty of any sin. There was no need for Christ. The idea you have floated over and over makes God a monster.

 

"If Edwards said that everything, every rape, every murder, every evil action is caused by God ... and I believe you have said thus, and Piper has said thus, then yes anyone who says this is making God a monster. If God is the cause of all then no one can be guilty of any sin. There was no need for Christ. The idea you have floated over and over makes God a monster."
...and Satan does not come to kill, steal, and destroy, God does according to this false doctrine.