Explaining Jn 3:18

There is no Scriptural basis for saying that TULIP is the gospel--none.
I don't care what you post or how many links you give. That one is heresy.

 

HP: What does God's foreknowledge of what might happen have anything to do with the outcome? Free will indicates being a first cause of ones intents and subsequent actions. Either the will is free or it is not. If man is not the first cause of intents and subsequent actions, the will is NOT free but under necessity. Which is it Steaver? If you desire to be seen as outside the fold of Calvinism, it would be a great advantage for you to distance yourself from a system of necessity, which Calvinism is indeed.

So far the 'choice' doctrine I see you holding is a mere chimera, and no choice at all.

 

Ole Charles certainly missed her there. :thumbsup:

 

Spurgeon's opinion doesn't make it right.
You have proved nothing. It is heretical to say that TULIP is the gospel. That is not Scriptural. TULIP is not found in the Bible. You are being divisive and I believe purposely so. You need to stop this. Inadvertently you are simply saying that perhaps more than 50% of the members of this board are not saved! We don't need those godless accusations thrown around here.

 

I really love this quote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Calvinist-Arminian_debate

 

Jesus said: "go and do thou likewise." What did he say it in reference to?
Judas hanging himself??
You do a lot of proof-texting; taking Scripture out of context.

 

Much of what SBM says is the direct results, NOT of Scripture, but rather the product of the Calvinistic philosophical position of the atonement. He views it as a forensic proceeding and not as the governmental substitution it was. The notion that he derives his position from Scripture alone is simply not the case. False philosophy drives every point of TULIP, including but not limited to total depravity as understood by the Calvinist and those leaning hard towards Calvinism.

 

"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, [and] I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. (Jer 1:5)"

Which is it HP? Did Jeremiah free will choose to be sanctified and ordained a prophet or did God cause Jeremiah to be sanctified and ordained a prophet?

 

Because God foreknew what would happen, it is no sign the prophet's will was not involved in the outcome. I believe God can foreknow matters of perfect choice as well as those of necessity. If God held the prophet morally accountable, his will was indeed involved in doing what he did.

God can do whatever He so desires, but if it is by necessity or coercion that man does something, God will not hold man accountable for any such outcome. I personally believe Jeremiah was indeed involved in choosing to follow the Lord's requests.

God chose and ordained others that in the end rejected God's calling and ordination. Saul was one such man.

 

You can take foreknowledge out of the equasion. The scripture is clear, God sanctified and ordained Jeremiah before he was born. It is written, and cannot be changed. Free will in this case would then be an agent that could overturn God's Word on this matter, that cannot be.

Saul's testimony has nothing to do with this matter of Jeremiah and God declaring him sanctified and ordained before he was born.

I dont believe you have satisfied your delimma. Jerimiah is just one of dozens of examples where God caused a person to be or do something. Foreknowledge does not make God's declarations of cause go away for you. You have to deal with it. What has happened with you is that you despise Calvinism so much that all you can see is free will and do not deal with those scriptures that clearly declare God's Providence in the lives of individuals. You need to have an answer for both, freewill has it's place but you have to deal with the element of God causing as well.

Think about it, :wavey:

 

But Steaver, God does not say He 'causes' it. You are reading that into the text. You assume without proof that because He foreknows it must of necessity come to pass. I again say, God can foreknow matters of perfect choice. I know full well that is beyond our abilities as humans, but I thought God's ways were higher than our ways, and His foreknowledge possessing capabilities we do not have.:thumbs:

 

"And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.(Exod 4:21)"

You have to deal with the fact that freewill is not always allowed with God. You are so passionate about defending freewill that you totally ignore the Providence of God and HIs power to give and take freewill at his WILL.

 

Your always calling me out on this cause verses freewill subject. You demand that if one says anything at all about God causing a person to do something , then they are a Calvinist.

There is both declared in the scriptures, freewill and God caused. Dont you see this?

 

Not entirely true.
(Joh 3:18) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

(Joh 3:36) He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

They will go to hell because, of their own free will, they chose not to believe on Christ.

 

Amen!

Jesus said He died for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD. What is left is believe or unbelief. The sin of unbelief is the onlly sin that will not be forgiven, this according to Jesus.