Explicit Messianic Prophecy

I have read it - but prefer to read Isaiah 53 for the clear picture of the Messiah in the OT and prefer to read Hebrews 10 for the clear statement that denies the "continual" offering AND the "continual sacrifice" of the body of Christ being taught by some denominations today.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Very true. It requires the explicit "denial" of the "1000 years" statement in Rev 20. It requires the "denial" of the integrity of scripture (perhaps from the very start - like oh say ... in Genesis 1 and 2 for example).

It means that you would have to deny the clear picture of the 2nd coming in Rev 19, Deny the clear teaching on the resurrection in Rev 20, Deny the rapture of 1Thess 4, Deny the global desctruction of Rev 19, Deny the clear explicit literal teaching of God's Word - and accept in its place "the traditions of man".

In Christ,

Bob

 

So are you saying that all thats been written in the bible has already come to pass. Including the Day of the Lord?

 

Iwasnt writtin that to you Bob. You must have slip in your post while i was writin mine.Is Carson a lawyer? He seems to post a lot of words but they dont say nothing.

 

I was simply argeeing that there is a lot of things they must ignore to wash out the 1000 years of Rev 20. I thought that listing a few of them would further enhance the point.

In Christ,


Bob

 

Who's on first

 

Downsville & Bob Ryan,

I hope that I don't sound like a milk/toast kind of man when I say that I am heart broken by Carson Weber's attempt at Christian eschatology. Roman Catholics take a very similar interpretation and spin their end times views like the Seventh Day Adventists are so good at teaching. Everything eschatologically is pushed back into the O.T. or the Great Tribulation into the framework of the Fall of Jerusalem. This view goes back to Augustine. These present day instructors of religion in Ohio and other places within Catholicism are going to pay dearly when they stand before the Lord, because of their teaching these demon inspired and watered down views of end time events which will lead people astray when the Great Tribulation comes into its true form.

I was going to answer Carson's post to me, but one of your posts deals with issues and chapters that this student of religion needs to twist for our consideration. Both of your posts need to be explained by this budding scholar, though his forte is the tradition of the Church, and Latin rather than a Biblical exegete. Did you see how he and they merely brush off an Christ centered interpretation of eschatology? If it were not so sad it would be funny.

Dr. Berrian

 

Carson Weber,

If you want to read someone before the 16th Century who believed that the church will be taken to Heaven before the Second Coming, please read the Thessalonian work or John's Book of Revelation. He may have been just a tad older than you when he wrote it. The Apostolic Church believed this truth.

 

Pseudapigrapha and Oxford's Aprocrypha.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Ray - the amillenial view that Carson preaches is not even accepted the RCC - and he has admitted this once or twice in the past. Even his own Catholic bretheren have come on these boards opposing him on this - so don't fall into the trap of thinking that he speaks accurately of the official views of the RCC when it comes to THIS topic.

The Adventists do not use either the futurist or preterist view. They use the historicist view - showing that the book of Revelation is describing history from the time of John (in general) to the second coming of Christ and also showing a literal 1000 years following the 2nd coming.

Basically "the Bible as it reads".

Actually - the view that Carson promotes is ideal for allowing Catholics to escape the fact that the persecution of the saints by the RCC after the fall of the Roman Empire was clearly identified in the Bible.

Time and time again they have shown that when the Bible facts don't please them - they simply ignore it.

Having an exegetically "compelling" discussion with Carson has proven to be illusive - since they refuse to engage in that form of dialoge.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Bob,

Thanks for fine-tuning what I said about the Seventh-Day Adventists. I don't have any books on this sect, close at hand.

Ray

 

Carson Weber,

The truth that matches what I believe goes back further than Martin Luther, Constantine, or even your brother Augustine. Apostolic views of God pointed most clearly to the coming of Christ for His living and dead saints, and that before a later Second Coming of Christ, with the unjust being raised after the Millennial reign of Christ. Read: Revelation 20:5a.

Give me your best attempt to exegete the thousand years, Satan being released again to deceive the world, the Great White Throne Judgment. No big dissertation required but in two sentences apiece explain them without allegorizing them into oblivion.

 

Carson Weber,

In Apostolic times the brethren did not have the theological framework that we use today, but they did realize that Christ's coming for His saints, is distinct from the Second Coming of Christ. There have always been people who believed this in the 1500's, 1600's, 1700's, 1800's, 1900's even into the 21st century. I am one of multiple millions of saints who hold to this beloved truth. Even the O.T. leaders and laity believed in some kind of judgment and reward of Heaven for their souls. Few of these people had all the answers that arise coming out of the Book of Revelation. Hope this answers your query . . .

 

You say so. Can you demonstrate it?

 

Well as the saying goes - "we learn somethin every day".

In Christ,

Bob