False conviction or God?

Many people do not respond well to altar calls.

Many do.

For some sensitive folks, there is toooooooo much emotional manipulation going on at some churches. All that carefully chosen for the emotion music, all that lay on the guilt to get someone down front preaching, and the sensitive believer once again "feels" a "lack of peace" and a loss of assurance.

Oh for some strong Puritan preaching, some glory to God singing, and an end to the endless manipulating of emotions!

Sorry. Done "preaching".

 

We have to be careful not to blow an uncertain trumpet when calling people to Christ.

That can happen if we stray from scripture and start adding stuff to repentance and faith.

For instance, we have defined "calling on the name of the Lord" as "praying to receive Jesus," or saying the Sinner's Prayer. Notice that Paul doesn't say "call on the Lord;" he says "call on the NAME of the Lord." (Romans 10:13)
I don't think they're one and the same.

Then, a few verses earlier (Romans 10:9), Paul says salvation comes by confessing verbally that Jesus Christ is Lord, and by believing in your heart that God raised him from the dead.

So what should one do or say? I point to the Ethiopian eunuch, who said simply, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God." He believed it and said aloud that he believed it. (Acts 8:37)

In Acts 17, Paul is witnessing to the philosophers on Mars Hill. In v.30, he said that God calls on all men everywhere to repent. Here's the interesting thing about their response to this exhortation: v.34. "Some believed." Not, some repented, but some believed. Not, say this prayer. Not, repeat these words. Not, come down the aisle.

When we move beyond simple repentance and faith, no wonder so many doubt their salvation down the road.

"I repent" and "I believe" should be enough.

 

Good post Dog!

 

There is no such thing, I got saved back then and fell away into sin, according to scripture. Today we are seeing many people who make claims to salvation but their lives suggest otherwise. In the end what matters is not a persons self evaluation but what the bible says. What happens in many peoples lives is that they make a public profession at some age and since they are not really saved they fall away.
By the grace of God they at some later time are moved by the Spirit and actually come to get saved. There is an old saying. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and ,looks like a duck then it is a duck. The same with those who claim salvation. The bible says it this way.

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.
He who (is in the practice) sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.
Whoever has been born of God does not (live in, practice) sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot (practice) sin, because he has been born of God.

 

This is simply not true. There are many reasons.

For instance, physical conditions that effect emotions.

Depression, anyone? Any Christian who has suffered a major depressive episode or a dysthymic depression has undoubtedly had to struggle with this issue.

What about periods of deep grief and sorrow where one cannot feel or see the hand of God in their lives. Read the Psalms if you think this doesn't happen to believers. Psalm 88 would be a good place to start.

Don't forget that, though Redeemed and in the process of becoming saved, we are still plagued by the parasitic, noetic effects of sin.

Salvation is held in Christ, not by my own feelings or assurances.

 

I understand what you are saying and how you are basing your beliefs on the teachings of today, but I gave a biblical response, not a secular one. The scripture never says what you are saying. It simply says what I gave and I stand on that.

If you doubt your salvation then you are either lost or you are saved with some type of un-dealt with sin in your life(not the practice of sin). However I am willing to change my view if you can give me clear scripture that agrees with your understanding. You mentioned Psalm 88. However in that Psalm the writer is not questioning their salvation but why God is not delivering their current problems. It even says in the first verse that he knows he is saved.

 

If you believe that you are a fool, plain and simple. The irony is the very Scripture was posted on this thread that refutes such a notion, you were asked to exegete it, refused, and when a separate thread was opened for you to do so you still refuse. The way you twist Scripture here on the BB is becoming legendary even for you.

Just continue to ignore the many Scriptures warning BELIEVERS not to fall into sin while ripping others out of context.

 

What kind of feeling do you think you should have? A sense of exhilaration, of a lifted burden, great joy, a peace of mind? Yes, I've heard testimonies from people who have told of such feelings. I don't doubt them.

But I have also heard a testimony from a man who said simply that he knew the Lord had saved him because his desires were now 180 degrees from what they were before. He desired to follow Christ, to fellowship with other believers; his study of the Word was now a thirst instead of a chore.

I read a story of a missionary who was preaching in an African village, when one of the men stood up. "I've heard enough," he said. "I believe."
No weeping, no rejoicing, nothing. Except "I believe."

Being saved is not a feeling. Being born of the Spirit is a work of the Spirit. If you understand you're a sinner, that's the Spirit's convicting and illuminating role; If you desired salvation, that's the Spirit's drawing role. If you are born again, know that this is the Spirit's regenerating role.

It is not necessary that you feel born again. The scriptures are clear: repent, believe, confess Jesus as Lord. Faith and doubt are mutually exclusive. One cannot say he believes and then doubt God's promises. As a saintly woman (my wife's mother) once said, "Faith and worry cannot live in the same house."

Do you believe? Then act like it.

 

As far as other scriputre I would have responed if I saw it.

I see that you left out the bible verses I gave. They do hurt when we resist don't they. I understand your inability to accept what scripture says. My guess is that you do not accept this verse either.

But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

By the way this scripture is also true. You might want to do a self exam.

 

I understand your inability to exegete Scripture properly, and therefore yet another passage taken from context added to the others (I didn't leave them out, there is no sense in trying to explain Scripture to you in context...you don't take to it that well). You may want to take your own advice and do a self exam of your hermeneutics. This Scripture is also true, btw. Kind of puts a dent in your ultra-literalness....or do you think God needs to do a "self exam"?

Luke 12:20 “But God said to him, ‘You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?’

 

You are, again going from Scripture straight to application. You must first interpret in light of its original context. If it doesn't mean something specific to the original audience than it doesn't mean anything to us today.

People struggle with depression. It is a physical problem brought about by an imbalance in brain chemicals. There can be sin involved, or it can be purely physical, emotional, or resulting from unhealthy thought patterns. I'm not giving you some of "today's answers," I am giving you pure, experienced, unadulterated facts. Check out Martin Luther, one of the greatest theologians in history. He struggled with depression and doubted God's presence at times. Check out hymnwriter William Cowper, who penned some of the most heart-lifting affirmations of believe, such as "There Is a Fountain." Even through times of doubt, brought on by mental instability and illness, he was still the same person who claimed "redeeming love has been my theme and shall be 'til I die."

As far as Psalm 88, the Jews have a very wonderful tradition in that they can claim what they know to be the case, but lament the way they feel. Check out the whole book of Lamentation.

Even Jesus on the cross cried out to God, saying "Why have you forsaken me?" That is divine permission for us crying out in the same way.

I didn't say anything about the "practice" of sin. The effects of sin are everywhere, and we need to get away from this understanding of sin as bad things we do. Sin is a much deeper issue than that. It affects nature, it affects relationships, it affects perception. It is separation, a severed relationship with God, and even those of us who are redeemed are not immune to its effects until we are on the renewed earth.

 

I see the old medical argument to deny the literalness of scriptures. Again we disagree. I still stand on scripture. I have scripture and you have your interpretation. You mentioned depression as a reason one might question their salvation, but if the person is doing what scripture teaches they will not question it. So if they are not doing what scripture says they are sinning and that is the reason for questioning not the depression. By the way most depression, if not all, is brought on because of sin. The imbalance of the chemicals is most likely because of guilt from sin. I don't believe that an imbalance happens and then they become depressed. I believe that sin happens causing stress and caused an imbalance and then they question their salvation. All because of sin. I can point to case after case where this is the manner it happens.
So today the liberal try's to deal with the symptoms with drugs instead of the cause, sin, with confession and most people suffer for a lifetime under the care of some Doctor. If you know who Andrea Yates is she is a prime example. She was a woman who was claimed to have postmortem depression and because of it she murdered her children. Drowned them all. However when searching out the truth this woman was dealing with some guy that was a cult leader and telling her all kinds of crazy things. She was in sin. I say that the depression was brought on by her sin, not the reverse. This is a good reason to doubt.

 

This argument is baseless. You also obviously have no clue about depression. Also, you say very little about how my points actually are contrary to Scripture. They are only contrary to your uninterpreted conclusion. Even the reformers didn't believe in nuda scriptura. They held to sola scriptura, which holds the Bible as the final authority, while realizing that we all must interpret.

The Bible doesn't exist in a vacuum.

Friend, I wish you would adopt a more gracious attitude; one of reconciliation. Using Scripture as a battering ram really isn't very persuasive.

 

Until one has had a near relative struggle with depression, it is quite easy to poke one's nose in the air and claim spiritual superiority.

 

Or until one has struggled with it themselves.

It's amazing how insensitive and close-minded people can be to these issues. They are real and present and intermingle both sides of our human dichotomy.

 

What a foolish & immature belief! Depression is most often attributed to a physical condition. My wife went through postpartum depression after the birth of our second child. Are you saying that the depression was not caused by "chemical imbalances" from the childbirth, but from a need to "get right with God"?

Chemical imbalances are a demonstrable physical condition. You speak only from a position of superstitious religion; adding to Scripture as needed to make your point. If you are consistent, then you must believe that ALL illnesses & infirmities are only as a direct of result of personal sin. When you get the cold, you just need to pray more....right?

 

You can call it what you like, but unlike you I hold to the scripture, not man's excuses. I am saying that a condition other then sin or of being lost cannot cause one to doubt their salvation or claim of it which you claim and is contrary to scripture. If your wife was doubting her salvation at the time of her postpartum depression then yes she had some sin to overcome before she could again feel assured of her condition with the Lord. Pills and or counseling does not bring about assurance. The bible says that God wants us to know we are saved and then gives the only way to know. So to doubt salvation means the person is not believing, which is sin, or they have some other sin that is not dealt with in their lives. As much as you might think so the revelation of God supersedes your wife's or any other persons claim.

 

You don't hold to Scripture...you hold to a twisted, sick understanding of it ala Fred Phelps. They irony is your screen name does not describe you as you are bound to your own law.

 

You need to take some theological and exegesis courses. I'd be glad to give you some recommendations.