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Featured Female Deacons? Yes or No

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Mikey, Mar 8, 2019.

  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Obviously Calminian thinks I am "pushing" female leadership. He is welcome to his opinion.

    Now returning to topic, during the civil war some found justification of inequality, but we now see it as twisting scripture to support dominance. Why do some think Paul was making a cultural accommodation. What in scripture suggests some women are gifted in various ministries.
     
  2. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    LOL! Even after your slave argument was debunked you go back to it. Rich!

    But thank you for making it. You offered a great analogy to your own arguments. Your case for female leadership is very much like the slave argument. Same interpretive principles.
     
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Notice a poster using "you, you, and you" and hiding from a biblical discussion of cultural accommodation.

    Now returning to topic, during the civil war some found justification of inequality, but we now see it as twisting scripture to support dominance. Why do some think Paul was making a cultural accommodation. What in scripture suggests some women are gifted in various ministries.

    Do any of these names ring a bell? Deborah, Miriam, Huldah, Ruth, Esther, Mary and Martha, Phoebe, and Priscilla.
     
  4. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    Just thank you again, Van, for offering this analogy. It's perfect! Please keep using it.
     
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another effort to change the subject.

    Now returning to topic, during the civil war some found justification of inequality, but we now see it as twisting scripture to support dominance. Why do some think Paul was making a cultural accommodation. What in scripture suggests some women are gifted in various ministries.

    Do any of these names ring a bell? Deborah, Miriam, Huldah, Ruth, Esther, Mary and Martha, Phoebe, and Priscilla.
     
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    2 John New American Standard Bible (NASB)
    Walk According to His Commandments
    1 The elder to the chosen lady and her children, whom I love in truth; and not only I, but also all who know the truth, 2 for the sake of the truth which abides in us and will be with us forever: 3 Grace, mercy and peace will be with us, from God the Father and from Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

    4 I was very glad to find some of your children walking in truth, just as we have received commandment to do from the Father. 5 Now I ask you, lady, not as though I were writing to you a new commandment, but the one which we have had from the beginning, that we love one another. 6 And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, that you should walk in it.

    7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8 Watch yourselves, that you do not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward. 9 [a]Anyone who [b]goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting; 11 for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds.

    12 Though I have many things to write to you, I do not want to do so with paper and ink; but I hope to come to you and speak face to face, so that [c]your joy may be made full.

    13 The children of your chosen sister greet you.

    Footnotes:
    1. 2 John 1:9 Lit Everyone
    2. 2 John 1:9 Lit goes on ahead
    3. 2 John 1:12 One early ms reads our
     
  7. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    Actually please stay on this.

    "We should be able to justify female pastors, because, after all, we once bent Scripture to justify slavery."

    I could not have come up with a better analogy. Most of the time, if you just let liberals talk..... :)
     
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    He who quotes himself in order to put his words in an opponents mouth, has no argument. Why did John address a lady as head of a church, if none were gifted in ministry?
    Why do some think Paul was making a cultural accommodation. What in scripture suggests some women are gifted in various ministries.

    Do any of these names ring a bell? Deborah, Miriam, Huldah, Ruth, Esther, Mary and Martha, Phoebe, and Priscilla.
     
  9. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    Very simple. To conform Scripture to their own thinking.

    Yes, these are great woman from the Bible, women who loved God's Word and didn't try to twist it. Deborah was the leader of the nation of Israel for a time. Funny thing, though, she never tried to impose a female priesthood on Israel.
     
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another charge addressing me. This deflection mania indicates a lack of any substance.

    Why did John address a lady as head of a church, if none were gifted in ministry?
    Why do some think Paul was making a cultural accommodation. What in scripture suggests some women are gifted in various ministries.

    Do any of these names ring a bell? Deborah, Miriam, Huldah, Ruth, Esther, Mary and Martha, Phoebe, and Priscilla. Did God use them in limited leadership to further His redemption plan?
     
  11. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    I love how Van presents his questions haven't been answered.
     
  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I love discussion of well studied positions, devoid of against the man blarney. If God uses women to head churches, teach preachers, and run parts of Christ's ministry, how to we not change our ways? Only by making a well reasoned case. :)
     
  13. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    Man will always try to argue with God with his "well reasoned" responses. Let God be true and every man a liar.
     
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Still nothing but against the man posts, devoid of any reasoned prayerful study.

    If God uses women to head churches, teach preachers, and run parts of Christ's ministry, how to we not change our ways? Only by making a well reasoned case. :)

    Why did John address a lady as head of a church, if none were gifted in ministry?
    Why do some think Paul was making a cultural accommodation. What in scripture suggests some women are gifted in various ministries.

    Do any of these names ring a bell? Deborah, Miriam, Huldah, Ruth, Esther, Mary and Martha, Phoebe, and Priscilla. Did God use them in limited leadership to further His redemption plan? What is the biblically based role of women in the ministry of Christ. Should they be trained in translation, bible, counseling, child education? How about preaching, evangelism, and church polity?
     
  15. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    IOWs, the Bible doesn't line up with Van's political liberalism, therefore, he goes into deep denial.
     
  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Was Deborah both a judge (with authority over men) and a prophet (a mouth-piece of God)?
    Was Miriam one of the seven major female prophets of Israel?
    Was Huldah the first person to authenticate Holy Scripture?
    Is Ruth one of five women named in the genealogy of Jesus in Matthew?

    How sure are we that we should bar these women from serving in leadership in our assembly?
     
  17. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    Is that what the hangup is for you? You just want women to have authority over men in a national government setting?

    LOL! Van you're so confused. Of course women can have authority over men outside Church government. They can be your boss, even your president.

    Women can excel just about everywhere. But in the setting of Church government, God designated it was for men only. Even when Deborah lead Israel, the priesthood remained male only.

    Hopefully you can now put this to bed. Yes, women can be bosses and in all kinds of leadership. No they cannot pastor churches.
     
  18. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    On and on go against the man argumentation. But when the opposition ventures to address the topic, the lack of study shows through:

    Who gave direction to the male High Priests? Was it a women?
    Who taught the preacher? Was it a woman

    BTW, the argument that a studied approach would make is God presents Himself to us as a Father figure. And modelling that, as the spiritual leader of the family, is the man's role. But when there is no man, or even no man of kindness and integrity, what is the best option for the proper nurturing of the children?
     
  19. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    On and on, the liberal tries desperately to impose political correctness on the Bible. :)

    Yes, and that's fine. So too do Pastors have to obey those in authority over them, many of whom are women. What do you think this proves? That's women should be pastors? That, my friend, is lack of study, and frankly lack of logic.
     
    #59 Calminian, Mar 16, 2019 at 11:54 AM
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019 at 12:28 PM
  20. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    In many Baptist churches, women are not permitted to be deacons, although that is not a uniform view by any means. For clarification, when I am talking about deacons, I am talking about persons who serve the church and community as designated representatives of the congregation, administrating and organizing the distribution of resources and services to the needly, hospital and home visitation to the sick and infirm, and general care of the congregation. They are not a ruling body, but they are wise persons that the church often goes to for counsel, both individually and corporately.

    Yes, although no one "is allowed" to be a deacon at our church, they must be asked. In our congregation, men and women are nominated by input from the congregation by optional secret ballots, and then an ordination committee reviews nominations and prayfully recommends ordination to the church for those persons whose lifestyle, acts of service, and concern for the practical needs of the congregation are amply evident. We generally look for people who are already serving others according to their giftedness, and then affirm them in that calling through ordination and official empowerment to continue their work.

    We seek both men and women to serve in this role because that appears to be a biblical standard. Among many other women who served in ministry positions in the New Testament churches, we know that Phoebe was a deacon and a minister (Romans 16:1-2) and was entrusted by Paul to carry the letter to the churches of Rome.

    Our church began ordaining women to the deacon ministry back in the 1970s after a careful study of the scriptures by the congregation and leadership. Well over 40 years later, the church has benefited tremendously from having women officially serving in this role.
     
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