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Featured Fervently Fervent

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Van, Oct 30, 2020.

  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I am unaware of your scriptural support for that premise. God can destroy the soul in Gehenna.
     
  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Well, to restate my view. Sinse the heaven and earth are psssed away, Revelation 20:11 before souls are resurrected v.13, I take it that souls are brought up from what is being called the sea and death as well as Hades. Revelation 20:13. Of course your understanding can just as well be the correct one, supposing the bodies v.13 are taken from heaven and earth prior v.11 some how.
     
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    The heaven and earth pass away after the Great White Throne Judgment, Revelation 21:1. The meaning of Revelation 20:11, earth and the heavens fleeing from the face of Christ, is unclear. It could be as simple as creatures of darkness fleeing the light, as in darkness and the stars flee the rising Sun.

    Returning to the frequent issue of translating different Greek words into the same English word, such as the several Greek words all translated as fervent or fervently, it seems less overlap (redundant usage) would improve our understanding of scripture. There is no need to defend the status quo, and Jesus overturned the errant status quo of His day.
     
  4. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Rev.14:11
    And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
     
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yes, I am aware that many, if not most, people understand this verse to indicate eternal torment. However, you may also be aware, the alternate view, is that the smoke indicates the consequence (eternal) of being in torment in the lake of fire. Thus those in the lake have no rest, day or night, while in torment for their sins. This view then allows that the actual torment is not eternal. Just saying...
     
    #25 Van, Nov 21, 2020 at 6:44 PM
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2020 at 6:53 PM
  6. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Scripture does NOT say anywhere that this torment is temporary.
     
  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Let us leave it there, we disagree as to what should not be read into scripture.
     
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Would it not be nice if someone translated God's word concordantly, where each word or phrase meaning in the original, was translated distinctively into English. Thus "Hell" would be replaced by Hades and Gehenna.
     
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    The NIV uses fervent to translate "ischyros" (G2478) which means strong, powerful, vehement. It does not mean "loud" which is by far the most used translation choice for Hebrews 5:7. However, the idea can be translated accurately by using "vehement," the rendering of the NKJV.
     
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    In the NASB95 and KJV, several different words are all translated as fervent or fervently. However their historical meanings differ significantly. Thus the distinctions intended by the inspired author have been obliterated.

    In Acts of the Apostles 18:25 and Romans 12:11, we have "zeo" (G2204) with a literal meaning of "be hot," and a metaphoric meaning of emotional commitment translated as "fervent." That is certainly consistent with the modern meaning of fervent, i.e. passionate intensity.

    However, if we look at 1 Peter 4:8, we find another Greek word, "ektenes" (G1618) which historically means intense and is usually also translated as "fervent." Additionally another Greek word, G1619, is an adverb and is usually translated as fervently, in Acts of the Apostles 12:5, Luke 22:44 and 1 Peter 1:22.

    And if you look at other English translations, you will find additional Greek words also translated as fervent or fervently. For example the KJV translates G1754 as effectual fervent at James 5:16.

    Both the KJV and Websters Bible have fervent mind at 2 Corinthians 7:7 for G2205. Most others go with zeal. However, we can find "deep concern" or ardent concern or loyal.

    The NIV uses fervent to translate "ischyros" (G2478) which means strong, powerful, vehement. It does not mean "loud" which is by far the most used translation choice for Hebrews 5:7. However, the idea can be translated accurately by using "vehement," the rendering of the NKJV.

    In summary, six different Greek words are rendered as fervent or fervently, but this overuse of fervent is unnecessary.
     
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