Final Authority before 1611?

Michelle said "Bible = the perfect words of God; scripture; the whole councel of God; without error"

Then how could there have been a "Bible", "scripture", a "translation" or a "Bible Translation" prior to the KJV if you said the KJV was needed to correct what already existed?

 

--------------------------------------------------
Their non-answers simply show they're clueless. But I keep on asking, to remind everyone else just how clueless the myth and its advocates are, when they see the KJVO responses, or lack thereof.
--------------------------------------------------

As you are also revealing your true intentions of slandering others first and foremost because you REFUSE to see the TRUTH to justify your COMPROMISE with error, and lack of and for the truth.

In other words, you do not care, nor love the truth, so in order to hide from this truth (keep from admitting/acknowledging the truth), from not only others, but yourself, you must paint a distorted and untrue picture of those coming to you with that truth. You are running from the truth, and must make the messengers of that truth, seem as though they are lying, to make yourself feel better. You are reflecting toward us, what is the truth of your own self, because you refuse to admitt the truth. It is called excusing away one's fault and error, at the expense of others who share with and expose this truth to you. Why are your running and hiding robycop? Is it to much for you to admit you are wrong, and repent and change your ways? Or do you just like believing lies better?


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

--------------------------------------------------
Then how could there have been a "Bible", "scripture", a "translation" or a "Bible Translation" prior to the KJV if you said the KJV was needed to correct what already existed?
--------------------------------------------------

You do not read anything with comprehension do you Natters? I explained this. Go back and read my posts. It is becoming obvious to me, that all you desire is to argue. I am not going to continue to be dragged into these circular arguments because you do not make the attempt to understand what someone is saying, and quite frankly ignore what was said.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Michelle, it is true I sometimes don't understand what you are saying, because it seems so contradictory to me. That is why I ask you questions - so you can clarify.

 

First of all, this is not a factual statement and for now I will opinionate as to whether or not it is truthful on your part.

The differences are not all correctable, in fact one of the differences which has been discussed at some length here at the BB has yet to be resolved by any KJV committee.

Also there were two First Editions of the 1611 KJV Cambridge and Oxford, they are different, the differences persisting unto this very day.

The original translation archetype manuscript has been lost and that is one of the reasons that the differences have never been resolved.

Some of the differences were actual mistakes that the KJV translators themselves made. I’ve showed these verses more than once. Most were not even acknowledged by BB KJVO.

One thing that keeps being repeated is that the differences within the KJV revisions/editions are lesser in quantity/quality. However the KJVO mantra has always been “things which are different are not the same”. I can name at least two books which address this issue. ONE difference means that two things are not the same. I agree, one is (for instance) the 1769 Cambridge KJV, another is the 1769 Oxford. Or several other intra-KJV permutations.

Until someone in the KJVO community gives a credible answer to this question “which King James Bible is the ”perfect” edition/revision (1611-1769; Oxford, Cambridge, Nelson) that they all accept then they are dishonest or worse in that they fail by their own standards.

Which one?

It’s a VERY simple question that cannot be answered “all” or “both” since “Things which are different are not the same”.

HankD

 

--------------------------------------------------
And where's the post by me where I say I'm "autograph-only"?

THIS AINT GONNA SINPLY VANISH, MICHELLE!!
--------------------------------------------------

I explained this to you already. I know that you saw it, but ignored it, and refuse to forgive and forget. So now I leave you with this, and this is the last time I will respond to this.

Mark 11

24. Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
25. And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
26. But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.


Luke 6

26. Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.
27. But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
28. Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
29. And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.
30. Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
31. And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
32. For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
33. And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
34. And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
35. But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
36. Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
37. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
38. Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

Matt. 18

21. Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22. Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
23. Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
24. And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
25. But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
26. The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
27. Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
28. But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
29. And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
30. And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
31. So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
32. Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
33. Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
34. And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
35. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Isaiah 1

17. Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
18. Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
19. If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
20. But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Please show us PROOF this history ended in 1611.
--------------------------------------------------

Michelle:The word of God is the word of God. It does not change, nor has been lost. The faithful have always had the word of God, and always will.

Thus, God has caused his word to appear in TODAY'S languages, including English.


Today you find God's word in our language perfectly/without error in the KJB of today.

We've PROVEN several errors, which you simply refuse to believe the PROOF of, and the KJV is in YESTERDAY'S language. Still valid, of course, but frozen in time,as all other works of men are.


The history continues, and will always continue with the faithful who know God's word, not only in their hearts and words, but their lives also.

Thus, if the world continues for many years, there'll be new Bible translations in the languages of that time.

 

--------------------------------------------------
Then how would you explain the multiple translation errors in the King James Bible?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


There are no translational errors in the King James Bible. The word of God is accurate and without error in our translation, as provided by God in his providence. What you call errors in the word of God are your wrong interpretations of a language you do not know, rather than understanding the truth withing the scriptures in your own language. Please show to me an error in the KJB? You cannot, because it does not exist.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Michelle:All these things are done by, and provided by God, not man.

The identities of the 47 AV translators are well-documented...and not one of was named God.

God CAUSES things to happen as He chooses, by whatever methods or processes he chooses. He caused Nebuchadnezzar to choose to attack Jerusalem rather than Rabbah by mens' "reading" the lines in a goat's liver, and by the way a quiver full of arrows fell when they were dumped on the floor. He hardened Pharaoh's heart against Moses by a process unknown and unnamed by us. There does NOT exist any proof that He influenced one group of translators to the exclusion of all others. That's a KJVO pipe dream, Michelle, that you simply CANNOT prove.

This topic started about pre-1611 English BVs. Not ONE of 'em is alike any other, even though they were largely made by the same man-Myles Coverdale, who was Tyndale's student. And you CANNOT deny that Coverdale was a scholar nor that he was devout, often working at the peril of his life, to continue Tyndale's mission of providing an accurate English translation of God's word. If anyone worked under God's influence (and protection), it was Coverdale. This all shows God is NOT LIMITED to just one version, nor did He retire in 1611 as you seem to be telling us.

 

--------------------------------------------------
Do the rest of the billions of people in the world who do not read english have the word of God or is it only a priveledge for English speakers?
--------------------------------------------------

This is a discussion that can only be based upon speculation and assumption on our part, and has nothing to do with this specific issue of today and regarding our own language and history. I believe by faith that they do and have had and will be based upon the same greek and Hebrew texts, that our KJB is based upon, but this is all I know and cannot speak of things of this nature without having an understanding of the other languages, and the history of the word of God in those languages. You are attempting to evade this issue. I am not going to play this game, nor enter into this circular argument. You want to talk about this issue, let us talk about those things of today, and of our history, in our language that we know and understand, rather than rhetorical questions that gender strife and those things not based on personal knowledge of all the facts. It is irrelevant because of this.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Michelle:All incorrect. All of these versions are based upon corrupt texts and methods. These are all <Bible attack clipped> Bibles.

WOOEEE!

MORE EVIDENCE!

Know what CIRCULAR REASONING is, Michelle?

 

--------------------------------------------------
The differences are not all correctable, in fact one of the differences which has been discussed at some length here at the BB has yet to be resolved by any KJV committee.

Also there were two First Editions of the 1611 KJV Cambridge and Oxford, they are different, the differences persisting unto this very day.

The original translation archetype manuscript has been lost and that is one of the reasons that the differences have never been resolved.

Some of the differences were actual mistakes that the KJV translators themselves made. I’ve showed these verses more than once. Most were not even acknowledged by BB KJVO.
--------------------------------------------------

You continue to say this, and claim the truth is wrong, without one iota of proof. There are no mistakes in the KJB. NONE.

It is sad that you and many others believe there are. What a very sad and dangerous way of thinking to have in one's christian walk. And even sadder, is the fact that many are leading others to this path of doubt and confusion. If the blind follow the blind, they both will fall into the ditch.

love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

--------------------------------------------------
Until someone in the KJVO community gives a credible answer to this question “which King James Bible is the ”perfect” edition/revision (1611-1769; Oxford, Cambridge, Nelson) that they all accept then they are dishonest or worse in that they fail by their own standards.
--------------------------------------------------

Sometimes the only credible answer, can only be answered by God Almighty himself. It is called faith in God and believing him and what he has said and revealed, rather than doubting. John 16,17

Why do you continue to focus on non-issues to prove the lie that God's word has errors? Why is it you are leading people to blindly follow those who claim to have knowledge of the Greek and Hebrew languages, over and above that of what God has provided for us for generations and his leading us to the truth? You are trying to sow doubt in the truth, to compromise with errors and corruptions that have been done to God's word. Shame on you. Gen.3:1


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Michelle said "Why do you continue to focus on non-issues to prove the lie that God's word has errors? Why is it you are leading people to blindly follow those who claim to have knowledge of the Greek and Hebrew languages, over and above that of what God has provided for us for generations and his leading us to the truth? You are trying to sow doubt in the truth, to compromise with errors and corruptions that have been done to God's word. Shame on you. Gen.3:1"

So if someone had faith that Geneva was without errors, John 16,17, the KJV was not needed and should not have corrected it? Those that did accept the KJV were guilty of Gen 3:1?

 

michelle said:

There are no translational errors in the King James Bible.

Maybe you're looking in the wrong place:

 

--------------------------------------------------
1.) The KJVO myth was started in 1930 by an official of A KNOWN CULT, the SDA. This myth is ENTIRELY MAN-MADE.

--------------------------------------------------

Wrong. The TR vs. the W/H texts has been going on since the 1800's.


--------------------------------------------------
2.) The KJVO myth has ABSOLUTELY NO SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT. This alone makes everything else moot.

--------------------------------------------------

Wrong. Abundant scriptural support has been not only given, but supports the fact that the faithful will always have God's pure words. Your denial and rejection of this scripture only shows your stubborness to this truth.


--------------------------------------------------
3.) No two English BVs are alike. Thus, if Psalm 12:7 is about God's words, that's another thing that proves the KJVO myth false.
--------------------------------------------------

Wrong. Your refusal to understand the difference between technical errors regarding translation vs. textual/methods errors regarding translation, and lack of understanding and believing Psalm 12 for what it says, along with many other scriptures concerning the words of the Lord, and the history of it that is evidence of this truth, blinds you to the truth.

--------------------------------------------------
.) By comparing Luke 4:16-21 in the KJV with Isaiah 42:7 and Isaiah 61:3, we see JESUS READ ALOUD from a version of Isaiah different from that which is translated into the KJV.
--------------------------------------------------

Wrong. You also misinterpret because you approach this verse with "assumption" and a "preconcieved idea/belief first, rather than understanding plainly what is said. I read in the KJB exactly what Jesus said. Otherwise, I wouldn't know he said it.


--------------------------------------------------
5.) While the KJV is an excellent translation, as are several others, it is NOT perfect, as we've proven here in several topics.
--------------------------------------------------


Wrong. The KJB is the word of God perfectly in the English language. Several others are not, as it has been EVIDENCED they fall short of perfection because they alter/change/omitt/add the words of God.


--------------------------------------------------
6.) Most KJVO arguments are absolutely STUPID! Examples: "The NIV denies the Deity of Jesus by calling Joseph His father in Luke 2:43" or the "copyrights" issue.

--------------------------------------------------


Wrong. This is your pure opinion based upon lack of understanding or admitting to the facts and truth regarding this issue. The NIV does deny the deity of Christ in many verses, to which is exposed against the true word of God.


--------------------------------------------------
7.) The AV translators were NOT "inspired", "providentially led", etc. They were human as you or I. Their preface "From the translators to the Reader", found in the AV 1611, but NOT in most later editions, is VERY telling...let alone their marginal notes, again, omitted in today's KJV editions.

--------------------------------------------------

Wrong. You are attempting to not only deny the power and providence of God concerning his words, but the promises and truth God has said about them in the scriptures, and the evidence that He has given you. You also limit God in his abilities and his will and reasons. John the Baptist also, did not acknowledge, nor know that he was the prophet Elijah, yet Jesus admitted later that he was. You are limiting God and his power, which is foriegn to the christian faith all to fight against a man-made false label you have placed upon the truth, because you are not willing to admitt to/realize your doubt which is causing you to blindness and error, and condoning of them.


--------------------------------------------------
Here are seven basic facts for you to critique, Slambo. If you can get by even the first two, you're to be congratulated.
--------------------------------------------------

Congratulated by whom? Men, or God? Nothing will convince the stubborn man of anything, because the stubborness blinds and is a stumblingblock toward the truth. It will and can only be by the conviction of the Holy Spirit of God upon your heart robycop, and your desire to know the truth, at the cost of humbling yourself before God. Will you choose your own mind, and wisdom of the world? Or will you choose the mind and wisdom of God?

You come here to fight, to escape what your conscience, faith and truth is telling you, so that you can at the end of the day feel justified for this in your own eyes. You are deceiving yourself.

The "KJBO" crowd comes here to reason with you, and convince you of the truth as best as the Lord allows us, and gives us strength and understanding of it to share. The rest will be, and only can be from Him.


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle