Final Authority

But robycop, we do have that right "by their fruits..." .

The Church of England was established by Henry the 8th because the Church of Rome forbade him to divorce his any of his wives.

Found online at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_of_Aragon

The CofE denies all of the Baptist distinctives to this very day. In the past they have persecuted and even murdered Christians. They resemble Rome in practice and worship and have their own version of the Roman mass and a modified version of baptismal regeneration, they are paedobaptists and are Arminian to the point of denying OSAS (just to mention only a few of our disagreements with them).

HankD

 

Hank - "Anglicans" are a very diverse group. Traditional (and also offical, BTW) Anglican theology does teach OSAS, rejects baptismal regeneration, and declares the communion only a symbol. They have many problems, though most of them are simply due to their leaders not believing their statement of faith (the 39 articles of religion).

 

Yes, Bartholomew, I realize that there is both "high" and "low" Church. I have read the 39 articles of religion, which BTW, modern anglicanism says is not necessarily binding on anglicans.

The term “sacrament” is used when referring to the Eucharist which to Baptist Christians (to this one anyway) indicates an erroneous view of the Lord’s Table (as if it were a channel of sanctifying grace) and a pious form of “double-talk” IMO.

The CofE definition of the “sacrament” of baptism is also an exercise in double-talk IMO seeing that “young children” may receive said “sacrament” and be “grafted into the Church”.
How tell does one become grafted into the Body of Christ apart from the new birth?

HankD

 

Not a problem

HankD

 

The idea that "Jesus Christ is your final authority" sounds very spiritual. However it is not practical. When debating, when contending for a doctrine, can you go to Jesus Christ? Does he answer the Batphone? (I used to think he did when I was charismatic.) No! All we have is the written Word. The question is who bows to whom? A MVer on another post just yesterday refuted a biblical argument of mine with "My bible doesn't say that." Oh we love the KJV. We revere it. But of course, if it crosses a pet doctrine, we often go scrambling and rummaging for multiple choice version B. So who is the "Final Authority"? You? Or God's Word?

Lacy

 

Lacy, some serious questions that I've never seen even remotely close to being answered:

Which edition of the KJV? The 1611, the 1769, or one of the others, perhaps?

For that matter, which edition of the TR (among the numerous) is claimed as the basis of the KJV?

Without extant manuscripts of the KJV Committee's work, how can one make any authoritative claim whatsoever that the KJV (in any edition) is an accurate representation of the translation they produced?

 

I have answered those questions on this board
.

http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/4/1553.html?

Lacy

 

I took a cursory scan through this thread, and I saw lots of unsubstantiated conjecture and speculation, but not the "answers" I was inquiring about. Will I find them if I read it more thoroughly, or will I just be wasting my time?

Can you be more specific in pointing me to the answers to my questions?

 

I answered the questions in the article. I believe you and I have already discussed it. (I could be wrong.) But in the article, I answered the questions. You might still call it conjecture though.

Lacy

http://www.harvestbaptistofmidland.org/home/default.cfm?nav_id=6&par_nav_id=&content_id=&article_id=371&layout=Default&Link_URL=

http://www.harvestbaptistofmidland.org/home/default.cfm?nav_id=6&par_nav_id=&content_id=&article_id=179&layout=Default&Link_URL=

 

Thanks Lacy, I'll take a look.

 

You're welcome brother. I know it probably won't sway you, but at least I try to answer the questions. God bless.

Lacy

 

Not KJVO, but I'll give it a shot anyway. The Bible has to be the final authority or we have no room for discussion, especially as Baptists.

I'll dig some stuff up and post it later, but I don't feel like it now as I just got off work.

Jason

 

Jesus Christ should be our final authority but the Bible is his letter to us so it contains what he would have us do but i believe its right to say Jesus Christ is out final authority the one thing we dont want to do is place the Bible above Jesus.

 

but i believe its right to say Jesus Christ is our final authority the one thing we dont want to do is place the Bible above Jesus

 

The Lord puts His word above His name......Look @ Psalm 138:2..That's Bible!!!!!!!!!

 

Lacy Evans: //The question is who bows to whom? A MVer on another post
just yesterday refuted a biblical argument of mine with
"My bible doesn't say that." Oh we love the KJV.
We revere it. But of course, if it crosses a pet doctrine,
we often go scrambling and rummaging for multiple choice
version B. So who is the "Final Authority"? You? Or God's Word?//

1. If you would be so kind as to tell me what your Bible
is, I would refute Your arguments with your Bible
instead of with my Bible.

2. BTW, i use the KJV1769 to refute MVs readings
of 2 Thess 2:3 (except the nKJV = New King James Version,
still agrees with the old KJV).
"Falling away" supports my eschatology; "apostasy" does
not. In other Words (i.e.) the selection of a pleasing
version can go both ways even leading
to the KJV1769.

3. If you say "God's written word in the KJV1769 is the
Final Authority" you have to assume this:
If any discrepancy seems to exist it is our fault NOT
God's fault.
If I say "God's written word in any English version/edition
is the final authority", I have to assume this:
If any discrepancy seems to exist, it is our fault
NOT God's fault.

I won't give anybody a nickel* for the difference.
*(One of those new nickels with the
golf clubs on the back )

4. The riot act IAW Ed:

I believe the Bible is the
inerrant written words of God.
It is nonsense for me to
believe that my understanding
of all the Bible is inerrant.

You believe your Bible is the
inerrant written words of God.
It is nonsense for me to
believe that your understanding
of all your Bible is inerrant.


Surely i have respect enough for my
Brother in Christ that i will allow you your
opinion. If further you believe your
opinion, i will allow that also.
But i will receive the same consideration
for my opinion/belief.
I am speaking of my opinion of what the Bible
said versus your opinion of what the Bible said.
What the Bible said is true, what
the Bible means is your opinion or
is my opinion.
Don't get your opinion of what the Bible meant
get confused with what the Bible said.
I'll try not to get my opinion of what the
Bible means to get confused with what the
Bible says.

5. We are then each a final authority unto
ourselves. You go restudy the Doctrine of the Priesthood
of the Believer, a Baptist distinctive.

 

One word for you Ed: "Accompted".

Get to refuting.

Lacy

BTW. Ed was the one who jumped versions on me on another forum. He never "refuted" it over there either.

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/3/2096/17.html#000249

[ May 17, 2004, 10:20 PM: Message edited by: Lacy Evans ]