finite SINNING punished with INFINITE torture?

Bob,

If you continue doubting God's Word when He says they shall have no rest day nor night, you may find that you will one day believe His Word.

 

By Believing the Word of God

 

If we are so limited, then our faith, upon which salvation rests, is also 'finite.' Anyway, I've never seen anyone move a mountain, which requires only a tiny bit of faith, said Jesus.

So-- the question is equally valid: How do you get to the point of believing finite faith results in infinite life?

 

By taking unrepented sin much more seriously than the quoted post reflects, and by following the Bible text.

These "finite" sins required the INFINITE God to incarnate as a human being, live in this misery-infested world, and die for those sins.

In the justice of God, those sins have to be paid for. If anyone wants to spit in God's face, and refuse Jesus Christ's payment, then they, as FINITE human beings, will spend an INFINITE time bearing the punishment for their sins because there is no finite time that they can do it.

The notion that finite human beings can do what the infinite God can do in just a fraction of the time fails to adequately esteem what Christ did, in my opinion.

 

I prefer the view that God gives in Revelation 14:11 (KJV) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.; rather than believe they are burned up into nothingness.

When people are resurrected, they are resurrected into an incorruptible body, Bob. One that will not burn to ashes, but will as Revelation 14 affirms have no rest day nor night for all eternity.

 

Do you want to argue that, since finite cause does not equal infinite result, that no one has eternal life?

 

The questions in the OS (opening statement)
are meaningless. Even if you have an answer,
the answer also is meaningless. Also somebody
doesn't seem to understand what 'infinite' means,
intails, or portends.

In Eucleadian Geometry, each line segment
contains an infinite number of points.
A line segment is a finitely defined geometric
construct containing an infinte number of points.

Through each of the infinite points on a line,
an infinite number of arcs may be drawn.

The infinity of the number of points on a line
segment is called (using the first letter of the
Hebrew alphabet) Aleph-sub-one.
The infinity of the number of arcs which can be
drawn through all the infinite points on a line segment
is called Aleph-sub-two.

Yes, hardly anybody studies the mathematics
of transfinites.

God's infinity is way higher than man's infinity.

BobRyan: //IF God is INFINTE and the punishment demanded
of FINITE beings is ALSO INFINITE - Then it stands to reason
that God only pays the debt of ONE sinner.//

God payed for the infinite debt of infinite sinners.
There is a finite number of sinners, so God didn't even
have to strain Himself.

 

Sin isn't finite. Sin is a sin against an infinite God and therefore requires infinite punishment. You are mistakenly thinking that sin is punished for sin's sake. It isn't. It is punished for God's sake. Since God is infinitely holy, any sin violates that infinite holiness and the only just punishment is infinite punishment in hell.

 

We will all live forever - just not in the same place...

​

 

Bob, you have a seriously deficient view of God, sin, and the atonement. This is so convuluted it is hard to even know where to begin.

 

If you offend in one point you are guilty of all. How could you get forgiveness of just one sin with the others still against you, they would make you still guilty. Therefore you must get atonement for all your sins or none at all.

 

Think about what you just said. If the debt for each sin is infinite torture (which I object to the use of torture since it is not how the Bible describes it), then the debt for two sins is not two infinite tortures. That is illogical infinite cannot be increased. There is no such two infinites (dying for two people or more). Infinite is without limits. Since Christ's death is an infinite payment, he can pay the infinite debt of all sinners and each sinner.

You see, your misunderstanding is on the nature of infinite debt and infinite payment. As I say, your position is convoluted.

 

Despite popular belief, one infinity can indeed be larger than another. For those interested in the technical details, the following material from http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/53352.html is provided.

What is the formula for proving that one infinity can be larger than
another? The number of fractions between 1 and 1000 should be larger
than the number of fractions between 1 and 2.

There are lots of ways to prove one infinity is "larger" than another
infinity. For instance, consider the infinite sequence (ak):

(ak) = 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8....

Now consider the infinite sequence (bk):

(bk) = 2,4,6,8,10....

Obviously, (ak) is all natural numbers, and (bk) is all even natural
numbers. They both have an infinite number of terms, but (bk) is also
a subset of (ak)! In fact (bk) looks to have 1/2 the number of terms
as (ak). This is called the paradox of infinity and it comes from
trying to use infinity as a number instead of as an idea. Comparing
these sequences you would get 2*(infinity) = infinity. And in fact if
you kept going you could eventually prove c*(infinity) = infinity,
where c is any number. Looking at 2D points compared to 1D points you
can get (infinity)^2 = infinity. Keep going in this way and you can
get (infinity)^n = infinity.

There do exist different types of infinity. This distinction is sort
of hard to think about until it's explained. There are enumerable
infinities and then there are non-countable infinities.

The sequence of natural numbers is an enumerable infinity; if we sat
down for an infinite length of time we could count from 1 to infinity.

The number of points between 0 and 1 on the number line, however, is
uncountably infinite. There is no way given an infinite length of
time we could count the points. Where would we start? Pick a point
and I can find another one closer to 0 than the one you picked. We say
that uncountable infinite items are much larger than countable
infinite items. The number of points between 0 and 1 on then number
line is much greater than the size of the set of the natural numbers.

 

It seems to me that the article posted plays with the definition of infinity and is ultimately self-contradictory. Furthermore we are addressing God, not math.