1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Flesch-Kincaid, part 2

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Mexdeaf, May 13, 2012.

  1. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Messages:
    7,051
    Likes Received:
    1
    Without having to wade through the previous thread, I figured I'd do a bit of research on my own regarding this issue. I found this lovely website- http://www.standards-schmandards.com/exhibits/rix/ - which offers a test for readability according to the F-K scale.

    So I decided to do a verse by verse comparison between the KJV and my current VOC (version of choice)- the ESV, using some popular verses that we all should know by heart. Here are the results:

    John 3:16

    KJV- Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 13. Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 46.

    ESV- Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 11. Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 59.

    Romans 5:8

    KJV- Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 8. Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 71.

    ESV- Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 6. Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 85.

    Romans 5:12

    KJV- Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 11. Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 60.

    ESV- Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 10. Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 66.

    Hebrews 10:24,25

    KJV- Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 20. Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 26.

    ESV- Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 18. Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 39.

    Matthew 16:18

    KJV- Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 11. Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 67.

    ESV- Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 10. Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 73.

    Matthew 6:9-13 (The Lord's Prayer)

    KJV- Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 6. Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 71.

    ESV- Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 7. Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 68.

    Romans 10:9,10

    KJV- Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 10. Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 66.

    ESV- Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 9. Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 67.

    Conclusion: This is admittedly a very small sampling, but three things are clear to me- first of all the KJV is at least a grade and as much as three grade levels higher than the ESV. Secondly, the ESV and the KJV are not as far apart as I would have imagined. And finally the F-K test is a lousy way to determine Bible reading comprehension. The best way to determine that is if what is being read, is being lived.

    A closing story:
    [FONT=&quot]One day four ministers stood talking and, as so often happens, the conversation soon drifted to shop talk. "I prefer the King James Version of Scripture," said one, "for its eloquent use of the English language." A second minister gave forth that no Bible could match the New American Standard for its faithfulness to the original Greek and Hebrew text. "That may well be," said the third, "but I prefer the New International Version for its contemporary language and easy readability." There was a thoughtful period of silence, and then the fourth minister said, "I like my mother's translation best." It was with some surprise that the others said: "We didn't know that your mother had translated the Bible." "Yes, she did," he replied. "She translated it into her daily life, and it was through her translation that I came to faith."[/FONT]
     
  2. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    23,778
    Likes Received:
    398
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Finally, someone answered the question from Part I
     
  3. annsni

    annsni Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,792
    Likes Received:
    636
    Really interesting stuff!! Thanks MD!
     
  4. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Messages:
    7,051
    Likes Received:
    1
    Figured I'd try a chapter- and a larger BV sample...

    1 Corinthians 13

    KJV- Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 14. Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 44.

    ESV- Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 9. Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 60

    NKJV- Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 11. Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 57.

    NIV 1984- Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 9. Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 61.

    HCSB- Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 11. Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 46.

    NASB- Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 14. Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 48.

    TNIV- Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 9. Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 60.

    ERV-
    Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 8. Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 63.

    Interesting, eh??
     
  5. annsni

    annsni Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,792
    Likes Received:
    636
    What is the ERV? Is that the Easy Reader Version for the deaf?
     
  6. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Messages:
    7,051
    Likes Received:
    1
    Bible Gateway calls it the "Easy-to-read" version, I believe it is known also as the English Version for the Deaf.
     
  7. annsni

    annsni Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,792
    Likes Received:
    636
    Okey dokey!! I haven't used it myself but I've seen it in the deaf office at church. :)
     
  8. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2012
    Messages:
    2,050
    Likes Received:
    9
    The Site said the longer the sample, the more accurate the reading. So I Got 1 Poetic,
    1 Gospel, 1 Prohetic, Rev 1 and 1 History



    Psalm 23 (entire)
    Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 6.
    Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 80. (ESV)

    Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 7.
    Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 77. (KJV)

    Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 7.
    Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 77. (NIV)

    Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 8.
    Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 72. (NASB)

    John 1 (entire)
    Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 6.
    Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 79. (ESV)

    Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 7.
    Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 77. (KJV)

    Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 6.
    Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 78. (NIV)

    Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 6.
    Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 81. (NASB)

    Revelation 1: (entire)
    Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 11.
    Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 64. (ESV)

    Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 14.
    Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 59. (KJV)

    Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 10.
    Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 68. (NIV)

    Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 12.
    Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 61. (NASB)

    Isaiah 53: (entire)
    Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 14.
    Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 56. (ESV)

    Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 12.
    Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 61. (KJV)

    Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 11.
    Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 63. (NIV)

    Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 14.
    Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 54. (NASB)

    I Samuel 3: (entire)
    Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 6.
    Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 81. (ESV)

    Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 7.
    Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 78. (KJV)

    Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 6.
    Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 78. (NIV)

    Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 6.
    Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 79. (NASB)

    except for this one you posted:smilewinkgrin:

    It appears that when we take larger samples: the difference shrinks...and is unpredictable, but that ESV does (best) overall, and genrerally, poor NASB just gets no love. Poor NASB, :tear: I really like NASB too :laugh:
    Thanks for the LINK I am now an addict :thumbs:
     
  9. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Messages:
    7,051
    Likes Received:
    1
    It goes back to what I said... F-K is pretty much meaningless in this debate.
     
  10. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2012
    Messages:
    2,050
    Likes Received:
    9
    Well, dunno if that is fair....maybe. But only provided what you were searching for is for F.K. to reinforce pre-conceived notions. Presumably...they are somewhat expert on the topic and they use the formula for a reason no?
     
  11. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Messages:
    7,051
    Likes Received:
    1
    My point was the F-K test is a lousy way to determine Bible reading comprehension. The best way to determine that is if what is being read, is being lived. It may be a fine test for other uses.
     
  12. franklinmonroe

    franklinmonroe Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Messages:
    2,887
    Likes Received:
    4
    see below (double posted)??? thanks
     
    #12 franklinmonroe, May 14, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 14, 2012
  13. franklinmonroe

    franklinmonroe Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Messages:
    2,887
    Likes Received:
    4
    From the website standards-schmandards website --
    Some important facts about readability measurement methods:

    1.Readability index formulas only work for a specific language.
    2.Readability does not equal understandability.
    3.A readability index score is not an exact science. For example, it does not consider disposition (paragraphs) or actual content (are the words from a specific domain?).
    Note items 2 and 3 as being particularly related to Scripture reading.
     
    #13 franklinmonroe, May 14, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 14, 2012
  14. annsni

    annsni Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,792
    Likes Received:
    636
    Very true. You can put in nonsense and get a low grade of readability - when it is nonsense! So 2 and 3 really show this to be true.
     
  15. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Messages:
    7,051
    Likes Received:
    1
    Too bad that Dr. Suess did not translate the Bible- I put in some text from The Cat in the Hat and the score was:

    Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 1. Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 100.

    :laugh:
     
  16. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    1
    It would make it easy to memorize. I still have echoes of One Fish, Two Fish, Red Fish, Blue Fish in my head from the millions of times I read it to my son! :laugh:
     
  17. Baptist4life

    Baptist4life Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2007
    Messages:
    1,460
    Likes Received:
    0
    Off topic, but I never cared for any of Dr. Seuss's stories. They're just freaky weird to me.
     
  18. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Messages:
    7,051
    Likes Received:
    1
    I always felt the same about Dick and Jane. They were just too "normal".
     
  19. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    5,499
    Likes Received:
    311
    Faith:
    Baptist
    All this thread has shown me is that any plow boy can read the Bible in nearly any English translation setting.

    Isn't that what Tyndale desired?

    Thank you, Father, for giving men a vision and dedication to Your Word.
     
  20. Baptist4life

    Baptist4life Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2007
    Messages:
    1,460
    Likes Received:
    0
    Amen! :applause:
     
Loading...