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For Carson, Free will and Council of Orange

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by WPutnam, Nov 5, 2003.

  1. WPutnam

    WPutnam <img src =/2122.jpg>

    Nov 15, 2001
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    Carson, (and others, who may wish to contribute) you are in a good position to resolve an issue I have recently encountered that hopefully, you could find a good answer for on campus.

    Here it is..........

    I have a serious question for those who may have resources greater then my own:

    Of this council, Canon 13 reads as follows:


    CANON 13. Concerning the restoration of free will. The freedom of will that was destroyed in the first man can be restored only by the grace of baptism, for what is lost can be returned only by the one who was able to give it. Hence the Truth itself declares: "So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed" (John 8:36).


    The canon seems to deny free will, at least for those who have never been baptized, yet the following canon says:


    CANON 23. Concerning the will of God and of man. Men do their own will and not the will of God when they do what displeases him; but when they follow their own will and comply with the will of God, however willingly they do so, yet it is his will by which what they will is both prepared and instructed.


    Seems to reinstate the general existence of free will in all men that they can choose between good and evil.

    I see a contridiction, perhaps from a loss of translation from the original (Latin) to English.

    Has anyone seen and addressed this apparent contridiction before? I would be cuirous to get a good answer...

    God bless,



    Pillar and Foundation of Truth, the Church. (1 Tim 3:15)
  2. GraceSaves

    GraceSaves New Member

    Mar 15, 2002
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    Perhaps it refers to true freedom, apart from the "slavery" of sin? Just a passing thought. [​IMG]
  3. Stephen III

    Stephen III New Member

    Jun 26, 2003
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    My guess is perhaps something in line with the fact that with God there is truly only one choice and that that choice is good and that through this good there could only be life.

    With the introduction of evil into the world through Adam and Eve's pride, what would have seemed like an option to Adam and hence all mankind, was truly just a choice of death. The expression of free will resulted in death and suffering entering the world. It is then not God's choice that if mankind was to have the freedom of choice or free will that we be precluded from choosing life.

    With Christ's restoration (and our participation with this restoration through our entering into the New Covenant through Baptism) there can be by our expression of free will or our conscious choice of Christ a promise of eternal life. (ala the persona of Christ). Life has been restored as a true choice.....CHOOSE LIFE!

    Just my amateur thoughts, not Catholc Dogma for those wondering.
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan Active Member

    Aug 27, 2002
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    Non Baptist Christian
    Sounds like Calvinism